Evidence for God from Science

I'd rather have a long conversation over several more months and get somewhere than move on to other issues before we've covered these, Wayne. You are asking me to explain calculus to you when you haven't even gotten down your basic arithmetic. Whether or not the Holocaust actually reflected the un...

waynepii wrote: If man were a solitary animal, this might be true. But man is a social animal. Our chances of survival are much greater as a member of a group rather than individually. Hence, maintaining the integrity of the group supersedes strict self interest. OK, let's say the Nazi crimes weren...

I'm on a business trip for the next 2 weeks or so, so my participation will be spotty due to availability of time and internet access. To see if we can speed this up: As I have pointed out several times in this thread, Nazism and the atrocities perpetrated during the Nazi regime do not represent the...

Jac i concure with B.W. Well said. if you don't mind me interjecting ---- The hypothesis that morality is based on cultural or social agreement from an evolutionary process is not valid. From an evolutionary perspective in relation to the "selfish gene " hypothosis the fact that we humans...

nazi stuff You ARE being inconsistent. It doesn't matter what OTHER people did or did not do. Remember, by YOUR definition, something is RIGHT if it is consistent with what THAT SOCIETY values. The Nazi ethic encouraged the extermination of the Jews in their effort to produce a Superman race. So, b...

Now, YOU say that BASED ON YOUR CULTURE, you think it is wrong (and certainly, it would be, based on American values). What I am asking is if you are prepared to defend my right to commit the act that you personally consider to be MURDER so long as it happens in my culture as me having done the RIG...

Wayne, I am not arguing for the reasonableness of the GR. the GR is great. I am not even arguing whether it is objective or not. I am arguing that, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT MORALITY EVOLVED, then you can have no more justification in believing in the GR than the mafia boss believing in "family-firs...

I'd be willing to help, but I consider myself an agnostic (looking for proof of God but haven't found any, and don't expect to see any - but I AM open to compelling evidence). IMO ALL atheists would fall into roughly the same category.

OK, so then you agree that murder is NOT INHERENTLY WRONG. Rape is NOT INHERENTLY WRONG. Torture is NOT INHERENTLY WRONG. Therefore, you have come to agree with the first premise in the moral argument for God's existence, which is the original statement that you FIRST DISAGREED WITH: Allow me to qu...

Wayne, I am not arguing for the reasonableness of the GR. the GR is great. I am not even arguing whether it is objective or not. I am arguing that, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT MORALITY EVOLVED, then you can have no more justification in believing in the GR than the mafia boss believing in "family-firs...

I agree. I've said right along that societies establish their own codes of conduct, and that most get refined over time.

It is my understanding that the golden rule is based upon two ideas. One being roughly "do unto others as you would have then do unto you" and the other being roughly "Do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you". Please correct me if I am wrong. Both statements ha...

OK, you've given me a laundry list of what is supposedly wrong with my worldview. How about giving me some justification as how yours is better and why?

I understand what you are saying, though I am having trouble understanding why they need to be said. Why not start to make your point and if some of these issues come up, it should be easy to clarify them at that point. Remember, I am looking for a clear, concise, reliable, and repeatable means of d...

How do you get that? The GR will always indicate that slavery is wrong (as an example). Whether any given person or society chooses to abide by the guidance provided by the GR IS subject to the "societal moral flavor of the day". But the GR *always gives the same answer to any pertinent q...