Where do you guys stand?

[Alpha~Omega]

I cant just sit here and read through posts . It seems right to speak about this.

I have embraced the flame that is this SIN. I am here to tell other young men just how badly
burnt you can be burnt from this!

First off, to show that it is a sin, I will ask you this, is masturbation GLORIFYING to God?
You think you need to do this to sleep? Isn't it better to exhibit self control which is
glorying to God, rather then rely on the desires of the flesh? Stop justifying this evil,
resist the devil and he will flee from you. Tempted one late night? Cry out to God just like
the Lord did in desperation, don't let the desires of your flesh be your master. CONTROL it,
what you feed lives, what you starve dies, all while relying on God to let you gain control
over this wretched beast. This will grant you the sleep you need... if you justify it it
will keep coming back... rather, call out to God in earnest, you wont be let down.

Now, the effects and implications of continuing to be a slave to it...
It equates to massive guilt unless you decide to have a seared conscience (which is even worse)
The disparity of the situation doesn't get any better when you do it. ( ill masturbate then everything's gonna be fine and dandy no worries!) < beyond justification
Loneliness... its a black hole and making the black hole BIGGER wont bring you "relief".

Bottom line: Just stay away from it... take it from me as I have suffred its ill effects first-hand, don't go down this road friend.

[CeT-To]

^ very disturbing display picture, alpha ^

[Murray]

I cant just sit here and read through posts . It seems right to speak about this.

I have embraced the flame that is this SIN. I am here to tell other young men just how badly
burnt you can be burnt from this!

First off, to show that it is a sin, I will ask you this, is masturbation GLORIFYING to God?
You think you need to do this to sleep? Isn't it better to exhibit self control which is
glorying to God, rather then rely on the desires of the flesh? Stop justifying this evil,
resist the devil and he will flee from you. Tempted one late night? Cry out to God just like
the Lord did in desperation, don't let the desires of your flesh be your master. CONTROL it,
what you feed lives, what you starve dies, all while relying on God to let you gain control
over this wretched beast. This will grant you the sleep you need... if you justify it it
will keep coming back... rather, call out to God in earnest, you wont be let down.

Now, the effects and implications of continuing to be a slave to it...
It equates to massive guilt unless you decide to have a seared conscience (which is even worse)
The disparity of the situation doesn't get any better when you do it. ( ill masturbate then everything's gonna be fine and dandy no worries!) < beyond justification
Loneliness... its a black hole and making the black hole BIGGER wont bring you "relief".

Bottom line: Just stay away from it... take it from me as I have suffred its ill effects first-hand, don't go down this road friend.

1) what is up with the display pic?

2) you make a very credable and valid argument against it, I must say you are starting to sway my opinion back to negative.

[Seraph]

^It's the Iron Lich from the video game Heretic. Fun game, though I prefer it's sequel, Hexen ^

I think there is a difference between lust and sexual thoughts. Lust to me seems to imply intent to take action and act in a way that doesn't involve love but is motivated only by sexual desire. Thus I don't necessarily think that masturbation involves lusting. But don't hold me to that.

Either way, I don't think it would be appropriate within a marriage since that would be unfaithful to the spouse. For single people though, I feel it could be justified and might even be healthy because sexual repression and frustration can have destructive effects.

[Murray]

^

What is the difference between looking back when you see a pretty girl walk by , and fantasizing about a pretty girl.

I assume most of us would agree that it is not Christian appropriate to look back and admire her physique and that we would classify this as lust. But we are kind of spilt on whether fantasizing about a pretty girls physique is lust or not.

Honestly, I wish that god tackle this issue directly in the NT, but I guess he just left that open to interpretation with phrases about lust of the flesh.

But god did write about ejaculation in Leviticus, but as we all know those laws are invalid, but still could possibly be a good reference for this debate.

[Alpha~Omega]

@ Seraph, I wouldn't of guessed anyone to know what my display pic is! I edited it to make it look more gruesome. I make alot of artwork about this stuff. Its unfinished though. I need to give it some dedication first. However I was in a bad mood at the time.

Overall guys, just flee from it. Also the part about looking at a woman, or fantasizing about her. What is good about fantasizing about her? THIS is the temptation I was talking about earlier. Don't look back at the attractive woman when she walks by and you are LESS likely to fantasize about her. So, it goes like this: gawking at an attractive woman ----> "fantasizing"-----> " gee I want to do more then just fantasize!!!"-------> masturbation -------> go back to step one/ repeat.

This is essentially the root of the problem. The answer to the problem is the God provided fruit of the spirit, we know as self control. Cry out for it!!!

Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8

Also, pretaining to masturbation withen a marriage:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' Matthew 5:27
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. Matthew 5:29
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Matthew 5:30

What about commiting adultery against God through lustful idol worship of woman you find attractive??? Gee, that means the Matthew 5:27-30 can interpreted to mean that all lustful actions outside of marriage are sinful. Which is why you should:
Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 1Corinthians 6:18

[neo-x]

Overall guys, just flee from it. Also the part about looking at a woman, or fantasizing about her. What is good about fantasizing about her? THIS is the temptation I was talking about earlier. Don't look back at the attractive woman when she walks by and you are LESS likely to fantasize about her. So, it goes like this: gawking at an attractive woman ----> "fantasizing"-----> " gee I want to do more then just fantasize!!!"-------> masturbation -------> go back to step one/ repeat.

Are you saying this is sin???

The way I see it, as long as it is in love, it is not a problem at all. I mean I understand the difference between lustful behavior and love but hey...I woudn't say masturbation is a sin, as long as you got nothing wrong at heart.

[Murray]

My opinion is swaying from one side to the other way way to fast, this is bad for me my head keeps slapping itself, I argue with myself inside my head on this issue, both arguments are so valid . Oh how I wish jesus said something about this directly.

I think perhaps neutral position on this is better......

[neo-x]

I'll put it to you this way, what if you are caught masturbating lets say, by God (weird I know but just for the argument sake)

And he says, "what are you doing?"

and you go, "errrrrr..."


and God goes on, "I see you were thinking about that girl who you love so much in a very private manner"

and you still go like "errrrrr..."

God leaves.

------------

same scenario but this time.....

God says, "What are you doing?"

you go like "I was just...errr..."

God says, "I see you were trying to fantasize a rape, and since you thought about it and enjoyed it, you have committed a sin in your heart."

you still are dumbfounded.

God leaves.

------------

Now a clever guy may say, "oh, but because he was thinking in the first place, naturally it would escalate to rape"...no it won't, there is no such thing as automatic sin. you decide when you wanna switch over from love to lust. There is nothing to automatically push you. restraining yourself when you feel like it will only result in more problems and even mental issues. I am not saying that you should just put your eyes on anything that walks with a skirt, just saying that if you feel connected it should be a genuine feeling, not the "I need to jerk 4 times a day cuz I'm an A-hole, crazy, porn addict" kind of feeling.

sorry for the strong language, hope you get the idea.

[Murray]

^

I just ended up typing like 3 different messages then deleting them all because I keep confusing myself.

My dilemma is you think about it, you want it obviously because you are aroused, so then you are lusting because you want. But you might be doing it to actually avoid acting on it and avoid lust in that since. if you love somebody, and you do masturbate, you are then lusting them in the flesh then? But maybe you are doing it so you do not actually have the feeling to lust in the flesh when you are actually with that person.

Do you see how I am so confused?

And you brought up porn, now that is another issue. That is not fantasizing, it is acting on the fantasizing by actually lusting actual flesh, and a direct violation of Jesus’ teaching at that. And also using women in a demeaning manner which is absolutely unacceptable and is extremely degrading to women, and honestly I think it should be illegal because it promotes sexism.(teaching men that women are tools and are below them)

[Alpha~Omega]

Do what you think is best then.

I tryed

[CeT-To]

^

I just ended up typing like 3 different messages then deleting them all because I keep confusing myself.

My dilemma is you think about it, you want it obviously because you are aroused, so then you are lusting because you want. But you might be doing it to actually avoid acting on it and avoid lust in that since. if you love somebody, and you do masturbate, you are then lusting them in the flesh then? But maybe you are doing it so you do not actually have the feeling to lust in the flesh when you are actually with that person.

Do you see how I am so confused?

And you brought up porn, now that is another issue. That is not fantasizing, it is acting on the fantasizing by actually lusting actual flesh, and a direct violation of Jesus’ teaching at that. And also using women in a demeaning manner which is absolutely unacceptable and is extremely degrading to women, and honestly I think it should be illegal because it promotes sexism.(teaching men that women are tools and are below them)

I was just thinking today about how some countries ban R18 games because of their grusome nature and people are scared of kids or youngins of replicating the actions - what about porn then? Secular society just loves to pick and choose their sins dont they...

Looking at a beautiful woman is fine - looking at a woman with few clothing can be dangerous if you have a weak will. Remember Jesus was tempted by the devil too so one has to distinguish between temptation and sin.

Temptation is like when you are oppressed to want something bad.
Sin is - i want that and i am going to get that regardless if its wrong.
There is a difference in attitude if you can tell.

Make sense? or is there something i missed?

God bless

[DivineRageFromSpace]

The following questions are irrelevant to those who believe that the masturbation itself is sinful, but allow me to pose them anyway.

1) What if the fantasies behind the masturbation do not involve real people? i.e.; You imagine character(s) from an anime in sexual situations with you?

2) For that matter, what if the fantasies behind the masturbation do not involve you at all, like porn?

3) What if both of the above are true of the fantasies? What if it's only fictional people involved with other fictional people?

The discussion so far has been interesting, but I have yet to see these conditions be brought up...

[RickD]

1) What if the fantasies behind the masturbation do not involve real people? i.e.; You imagine character(s) from an anime in sexual situations with you?

Now I understand why some people are fascinated with anime. Anime porn. Whoda thunk it? I used to think Wilma Flintstone was a hottie!

[DivineRageFromSpace]

Now I understand why some people are fascinated with anime. Anime porn. Whoda thunk it? I used to think Wilma Flintstone was a hottie!

Ah, I was hoping you'd pop up! Your responses always get a chuckle outta me. xD