Does Christianity derive from innately selfish orgins???

[Felgar]

but, in truly knowing Him, the selfishness is eradicated and replaced with love. fear is always an obstruction to love. it is God's love that relieves fear and allows US to finally, truly love and be liberated. trust me, if you don't know God, you don't really know how to love.

Absolutely!

TO all ye who preach tolerance, you airheaded hypocrites, tolerate my intolerance! Tolerance is stupid. It'd tacit consent. It's not caring. If I see someone being immoral, should I let him continue? Only if I didn't care. Because I care, though, I would be intolerant and say what he's doing is wrong.

Agreed. Ambivalence is not tolerance, and most are confused about that nowadays. If I am truly tolerant and care about another individual then I'm compelled to share the truth with them.

And the judging passages are taken out of context here. Jesus is saying to reflect on ourselves before attempting to handle someone else's problems. But what a Christian says to a non-Christian is "I've turned to Jesus in faith to obtain righteousness, and so should you." It's not about being better than anyone else, or about people handling each other's problems; it's about accepting God's gift of grace - and by that standard I will welcome judgement because (as just pointed out) in love there is no fear.

[ongelovige]

Doesn't Jezus visit the guy who does toll collection for the Romans (and thus is regarded as an unclean outcast). Does he not consort with whores? Does he not say: he who throws the first stone etc?

Jezus is very clear about tolerance I would say. And sofisms like I think being truly tolerant means is BS of course. The meaning of tolerance can be found in the dictionary, it is not something you define as you go along to suit your needs.

Hey even about the tax collector says: give to Rome what belongs to Rome

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Jesus did go around the dregs of society, he loved them, but nowhere are we told he stood around as the tax collector jipped someone, or the whore found a customer and ran off...

Tolerance: The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others

You didn't bother defining, so I looked it up...

Jesus was not tolerant.

Hey even about the tax collector says: give to Rome what belongs to Rome

Jesus, not the tax collector, said that.

Jezus is very clear about tolerance I would say. And sofisms like I think being truly tolerant means is BS of course. The meaning of tolerance can be found in the dictionary, it is not something you define as you go along to suit your needs.

I can't tell who's side your on...and, um, sofisms?

[The edge]

Did you ever think storys and facts change over years its been 2000 years. plus 2 of jesus's apostles never wrote in the bible of a resurrection. but where added in after their deaths 200 years later. even if he didn't die he would have died later as a older man. when he left the country.


Actually its in the the James version of the bible. i guess they took it out of the other bibles because no priest knew what it meant and didn't want people asking questions about it.

What's your proof that Christ death & resurrection & acension is not the truth....or are you just parroting someone without seeking the truth yourself. Ever consider the changing & twisting of facts may have occurred in your source instead?

For the kingdom of heaven within verse,
I think u're refering to Lk 17:21. U need to interpret the scripture rightly before concluding. See those verses before & after to understand the context. and BTW, I've not seen any bible version that had this verse missing.

Lk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is c within you.

and the meaning be, that the king Messiah was already come, and was among them, and his kingdom was already set up, of which the miracles of Christ were a full proof; and if they could not discern these signs of the times, and evident appearances of the kingdom of God among them, they would never be able to make any observation of it, hereafter, or elsewhere.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

He's kinda like the guys who wrote about how Jesus was a mythological character...they knew squat about history, but said it anyway. (It was a tektonic thing, don't have the link though).

[ongelovige]

[quote="AttentionKMartShoppers"]Jesus did go around the dregs of society, he loved them, but nowhere are we told he stood around as the tax collector jipped someone, or the whore found a customer and ran off...

Tolerance: The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others

You didn't bother defining, so I looked it up...

Jesus was not tolerant.

[quote]Hey even about the tax collector says: give to Rome what belongs to Rome [/quote] Jesus, not the tax collector, said that.

[quote]Jezus is very clear about tolerance I would say. And sofisms like I think being truly tolerant means is BS of course. The meaning of tolerance can be found in the dictionary, it is not something you define as you go along to suit your needs. [/quote]

I can't tell who's side your on...and, um, sofisms?[/quote]

Jezus is very clear when it comes to the acceptance of Roman rule and taxes - he tells his countrymen to accept both. (And why not - Christ kingdom is not of this Earth). What Christ doesnot accept is commercial abuse of the temple and the strict scripture analysis from the Jewish priest class (Farizeans or something, pardon my English).

The last thing, strict scripture analysis, comes close to some of the 'pure scripture references' some are making on this forum, perhaps?

With sofism I mean - technical reasoning tricks that looks smart (and is logically okay) but is more a game of logic than a true statement.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Jezus is very clear when it comes to the acceptance of Roman rule and taxes - he tells his countrymen to accept both. (And why not - Christ kingdom is not of this Earth). What Christ doesnot accept is commercial abuse of the temple and the strict scripture analysis from the Jewish priest class (Farizeans or something, pardon my English).

You're using sofism I do believe. Tolerating Roman rule and taxes and tolerating people believing in something that is non-Christianity and being immoral are entirely different. Tolerance is horrible. I can't remember the name of the bridge, but there's a story of how a bridge was brought down by a ship hitting one of its supports. Cars and such were flying to what was most likely their death, until someone got the idea to warn everyone else. He got up on land (he was on a boat picking up survivors), fired a flare at an 18 wheeler, and got him to block the road and save lives. Tolerance would be allowing these guys to go over the end, and just wave and smile. This hero was being intolerant-when the drivers wanted to try the bridge, he said, no, you're wrong.

and, Jesus, not Jezus..please?

[Prodigal Son]

just try and answer it:

he won't because he was a man and he died

umm, you really don't have your facts straight. he wasn't a man at all.

but you won't understand it, will you?

[ongelovige]

You're using sofism I do believe. Tolerating Roman rule and taxes and tolerating people believing in something that is non-Christianity and being immoral are entirely different. Tolerance is horrible. I can't remember the name of the bridge, but there's a story of how a bridge was brought down by a ship hitting one of its supports. Cars and such were flying to what was most likely their death, until someone got the idea to warn everyone else. He got up on land (he was on a boat picking up survivors), fired a flare at an 18 wheeler, and got him to block the road and save lives. Tolerance would be allowing these guys to go over the end, and just wave and smile. This hero was being intolerant-when the drivers wanted to try the bridge, he said, no, you're wrong.

and, Jesus, not Jezus..please?

You are making a mockery about the meaning of tolerance. This is a story that makes no sense at all, really. (The 18 wheeler is too good to make the story somethibng else than urban legend by the way)

Your response has a peculiar twist - you talk about "believing something that is non-Christian AND being immoral". I cant figure this one out... does this mean that "believing something non-Christian" can be tolerated, as "being immoral" can be as long as you do not combine both?

It is a rather fragile definition anyway, as there is no "standard" telling us what Christianity is (yes, yes, the scripture, but that has as many interpreation as it has verses).

By the way, the side I'm on:

- religion is a personal, private experience (though you are free to share)
- absolute truth is not available to people
- humility and modesty are the best qualities to aspire

[Felgar]

absolute truth is not available to people

Have you not seen the T-Shirts?

"There are 2 absolute truths:
1) There is a God
2) You're not Him"

[bizzt]

absolute truth is not available to people

Have you not seen the T-Shirts?

"There are 2 absolute truths:
1) There is a God
2) You're not Him"

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

You are making a mockery about the meaning of tolerance. This is a story that makes no sense at all, really. (The 18 wheeler is too good to make the story somethibng else than urban legend by the way)

Your response has a peculiar twist - you talk about "believing something that is non-Christian AND being immoral". I cant figure this one out... does this mean that "believing something non-Christian" can be tolerated, as "being immoral" can be as long as you do not combine both?

If I really said that quote me, because that sounds stupid.

[ongelovige]

absolute truth is not available to people

Have you not seen the T-Shirts?

"There are 2 absolute truths:
1) There is a God
2) You're not Him"

Felgar, grow up

[ongelovige]

You're using sofism I do believe. Tolerating Roman rule and taxes and tolerating people believing in something that is non-Christianity and being immoral are entirely different. Tolerance is horrible. I can't remember the name of the bridge, but there's a story of how a bridge was brought down by a ship hitting one of its supports. Cars and such were flying to what was most likely their death, until someone got the idea to warn everyone else. He got up on land (he was on a boat picking up survivors), fired a flare at an 18 wheeler, and got him to block the road and save lives. Tolerance would be allowing these guys to go over the end, and just wave and smile. This hero was being intolerant-when the drivers wanted to try the bridge, he said, no, you're wrong.

and, Jesus, not Jezus..please?

Your quotation in red....

[Felgar]

Felgar, grow up

Ok, so you're not in the joking mood... The point is this: there ARE absolutes, whether you recognize them or not. If you refuse to accept that God and His Word are absolute, then you have no faith because you don't actually believe anything at all - well nothing about God, His love, and his grace through Jesus anyways.

This is EXACTLY what Jesus was talking about; build your house upon the rock - how could He have said "I am absolute" any more clearly?

Matthew 7:24-27
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

The point: building your faith on relativism amounts to a foundation of sand, and it will be knocked to the ground when pressured.