Question on Luke

[Murray]

Luke 19:27, seems to be commonly used by hateful folks in denial (atheist) as an attack against christianity.

So i suppose my question is, is luke 19:27 literally telling us to murder those opposed to jesus.

insight would be greaty appriciated.

[Seraph]

No. That verse is part of a parable Jesus was telling. In the parable, Jesus is talking about a king who gives money each servant, and then collects the interest made by each servant. At the end of the parable, it's basically saying that the king (God) will eventually have victory over his enemies (sin, those who live in sin).

In it's full context, it definitely is not commanding anyone to kill anybody.

[Murray]

Honestly I'm still kind of confused

[RickD]

Honestly I'm still kind of confused

Find out what a parable is, Murray. The red words are in red to show that Jesus is speaking. Jesus spoke in parables to convey a message. Parables are short allegories. Parables are symbolic. Not literal in the sense that is often assumed when taken out of context.

[Murray]

I have read the New Testament, I’m pretty sound on the definition of a parable.

I need help putting the "parable" in context because it seems pretty straight forward to be saying, if they don’t like me slay them.

[RickD]

I have read the New Testament, I’m pretty sound on the definition of a parable.

I need help putting the "parable" in context because it seems pretty straight forward to be saying, if they don’t like me slay them.

Ok, I see what you're saying. The way it's written seems to say that it is Jesus speaking outside the parable. My interpretation seems to say that verse 27 speaks about God's final judgement on unbelievers. The parable is symbolic of Christ's coming incarnate, then coming again in judgement, where HE will destroy His enemies. I don't know if that helps.

[Murray]

If the bible said destroy this would make me feel much better

But it says "slay before me" and thats what seems to thow me off.

[RickD]

If the bible said destroy this would make me feel much better

But it says "slay before me" and thats what seems to thow me off.

Ok, I understand what you're saying. Have you done a google search for Luke 19:27? Someone might have an explanation that explains it better for you. I guess I just didn't have a problem with the way the verse is worded, because I just take in context with the rest of the parable. I just see it as God's judgement. I can see, however, how someone could be uncomfortable with the way it's worded.

[Murray]

I did google it, most of them are Christophobic bigot sites.

I'll e-mail my pastor, maybe he will have some insight into.

Thanks for the attempt to clairify though rick

[Canuckster1127]

As has been mentioned, this is a parable. Parables are illustrative stories used by Christ to make a point. Jesus often used hyperbole or exageration in his statements to make the point he was illustrating. Many who either want to criticize the Bible or who don't understand the cultural use of these stories, pick-up on this and then combine it with the argument that they hear from Christians that the Bible is to be taken literally and use these types of comments and parables to try and portray God and the Bible as excessively cruel. It's not a fair conclusion and it misses the point. Jesus drew his parables from His surroundings and from his knowlege of his audience. He delighted in showing people how God's character and love was so much different than was commonly taught and assumed through the teachings of the Pharisees and other leaders in Israel. He often contrasted God against human figures to draw the point that people were quicker to assume that even sinful fathers would treat their children better than they believed God would treat them. He also loved to take the teachings of the Pharisees and turn it back onto them in a sense of justice for what they did to others by heaping shame and guilt upon them.

One of the best things to do with parables is to stop before you read a verse from them and look at:

1. Who was Jesus speaking to?
2. Who else was around listening that might cause Christ to speak in parables so that he could make a point without directly saying what he was trying to say?
3. Are there other parables around this parable from which you can draw a theme?

The other caveat is because parables were focused on one primary point, it can be particularly dangerous to assign a literal meaning or representation to each element of the parable. Parables are not allegories. There's not a one to one representation. The image of the leader having them slain in front of them may be referring more directly as an exageration of the image that those Jesus was speaking to or about were reading in and Jesus was pushing the point to show how contrary it was to the nature of God that He modeled and came to proclaim.

Hope that helps and doesn't confuse further.

bart

[Murray]

My Pastors Responce

Hi Ryan,

This particular verse is a challenge to interpret. It almost seems “tacked on” to the end of the Parable, but still a part of the Parable. Of course the Parable itself is about using our gifts, talents, resources in a way that benefits others and blesses God. The implication is that there is coming a day when we will be held accountable for how we use what we have. But I think this particular verse you mention is reminding us that those who completely reject Jesus and choose to do evil rather than good, will also have a day of accountability.



It is not that Jesus wants to kill those who oppose him, it is that those who intentionally choose to do evil and seek to harm or destroy what God is doing will one day face the consequences of their choices.



It is a difficult truth for us to hear and appreciate, but it is a theme found several places in the New Testament.



Mark Miller

[rstrats]

Canuckster1127,

re: “ Parables are illustrative stories used by Christ to make a point.”

Actually, parables were used to keep “those who were outside” (Mark 4:11) from “knowing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 13:11).

[Canuckster1127]

Canuckster1127,

re: “ Parables are illustrative stories used by Christ to make a point.”

Actually, parables were used to keep “those who were outside” (Mark 4:11) from “knowing the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 13:11).

That's not exclusive to what I said. They were still to be understood by those he spoke to at the time. He did intend for there to be a veil often times to antagonists in the audience who were present at the time he wad speaking. Too, often times parables are directly about the Pharisees and how their legalism and literal manipulation have misrepresented the nature and character if God and led others astray.

[PaulSacramento]

Its a tricky passage because it truly seems that Christ is saying that parables are being used to keep people in the dark and from forgiveness:
“To you has been given the secreta of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; 12 in order that

‘they may indeed look, but not perceive,

and may indeed listen, but not understand;

so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.’ ”

But he better explains in Matt:
13 The reason I speak to them in parables is that ‘seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand.’ 14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah that says:

‘You will indeed listen, but never understand,

and you will indeed look, but never perceive.

15 For this people’s heart has grown dull,

and their ears are hard of hearing,

and they have shut their eyes;

so that they might not look with their eyes,

and listen with their ears,

and understand with their heart and turn—

and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17 Truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but did not see it, and to hear what you hear, but did not hear it.

It seems that the parables are also a kind of "test", that if ones heart is "dull" and their ears "hard of hearing" that they won't understand the parables and, presumably, not ask for clarification as the apostles did.

Christ using that passage from Isaiah seems to be saying that people have done this to themselves ( they have shut their eyes).

[rstrats]

Canuckster1127,

re: “They [the parables] were still to be understood by those he spoke to at the time.”

That is true, but there is no scripture that says that the Messiah spoke in parables so that His message could be better understood. Scripture only gives two reasons: the first mentioned above and the second to fulfill Psalms 78:2.