Star Trek: The New Generation
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ultimate777
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Star Trek: The New Generation
Are there any ST:TNG fans here? If so, I think there are some things about Data we can discuss here that would be relevent to this board. I wonder if you can guess where I am coming from?
Re: Star Trek: The New Generation
ultimate777 wrote:Are there any ST:TNG fans here? If so, I think there are some things about Data we can discuss here that would be relevent to this board. I wonder if you can guess where I am coming from?
Err, morality perhaps?
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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narnia4
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Re: Star Trek: The New Generation
Nerd rant here-
I'm a Star Trek fan but I'm a much bigger TOS fan than I am TNG fan. Frankly, I used to be a bigger TNG fan than I am now but I cooled to a bit because I found it to be the least faith-friendly of all the Star Trek series. The original Star Trek occasionally had episodes that had scenarios that could be taken as criticism of certain religious practices or organizations, but it also had episodes that showed a chapel, mentions of God here and there, and one episode in particular that's very positive toward Christ and Christianity.
In TNG, however, Roddenberry achieved the highest level of control in the early seasons and got to preach his "vision" for the future... a vision where everyone in the future is basically an atheist. Its actually pretty ironic and hypocritical, the "highest ideal" of Star Trek is supposed to be "IDIC" or "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations". You respect everybody for all their beliefs and everybody has different beliefs... except when it comes to religion, where everybody must agree with Roddenberry's agenda. But that's what Roddenberry wanted, an "ideal future" with no religion. A few guys definitely try to carry that out, like Brannon Braga is something of an atheist proselytizer.
To be fair most Star Trek writers didn't agree with him that there would be no religion in the future, one of Trek's best writers Ronald Moore certainly didn't. When he had more creative control over DS9, for example, he was more respectful and put spiritual/religious storylines into the series and overall that came across as more honest to me. Voyager as well (even though Braga had more creative control there) was a bit more "open".
Even TNG wasn't always bad about it. There are a couple of God references that seem to suggest that not everybody is secular and occasionally you see other culture's religions. There's one scene where Picard and Data talk about what might happen after you die and another episode where Picard thinks he might be dead and in the afterlife. I don't care what Roddenberry says, I do hold the view that people still maintain a diversity of religious beliefs in the future. There aren't that many religious references or references to God, but there are too many to just explain away if you want to maintain that a Trek future is completely secular.
With all that said there are a few TNG episodes that really stick in my craw, one in particular is "Who Watches the Watchers" that is straight out anti-religious propoganda. Personally, I think Trek is usually at its best the further it strays from Roddenberry. Besides religion and God, a series about perfected pacified humans is just boring and unrealistic. TOS stayed away from that and its one reason why its the best. The best Star Trek movies are all the ones that Roddenberry didn't like, the action-filled ones. The Undiscovered Country and The Wrath of Khan.
Nerd rant over, but open to more TNG discussion.
I'm a Star Trek fan but I'm a much bigger TOS fan than I am TNG fan. Frankly, I used to be a bigger TNG fan than I am now but I cooled to a bit because I found it to be the least faith-friendly of all the Star Trek series. The original Star Trek occasionally had episodes that had scenarios that could be taken as criticism of certain religious practices or organizations, but it also had episodes that showed a chapel, mentions of God here and there, and one episode in particular that's very positive toward Christ and Christianity.
In TNG, however, Roddenberry achieved the highest level of control in the early seasons and got to preach his "vision" for the future... a vision where everyone in the future is basically an atheist. Its actually pretty ironic and hypocritical, the "highest ideal" of Star Trek is supposed to be "IDIC" or "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations". You respect everybody for all their beliefs and everybody has different beliefs... except when it comes to religion, where everybody must agree with Roddenberry's agenda. But that's what Roddenberry wanted, an "ideal future" with no religion. A few guys definitely try to carry that out, like Brannon Braga is something of an atheist proselytizer.
To be fair most Star Trek writers didn't agree with him that there would be no religion in the future, one of Trek's best writers Ronald Moore certainly didn't. When he had more creative control over DS9, for example, he was more respectful and put spiritual/religious storylines into the series and overall that came across as more honest to me. Voyager as well (even though Braga had more creative control there) was a bit more "open".
Even TNG wasn't always bad about it. There are a couple of God references that seem to suggest that not everybody is secular and occasionally you see other culture's religions. There's one scene where Picard and Data talk about what might happen after you die and another episode where Picard thinks he might be dead and in the afterlife. I don't care what Roddenberry says, I do hold the view that people still maintain a diversity of religious beliefs in the future. There aren't that many religious references or references to God, but there are too many to just explain away if you want to maintain that a Trek future is completely secular.
With all that said there are a few TNG episodes that really stick in my craw, one in particular is "Who Watches the Watchers" that is straight out anti-religious propoganda. Personally, I think Trek is usually at its best the further it strays from Roddenberry. Besides religion and God, a series about perfected pacified humans is just boring and unrealistic. TOS stayed away from that and its one reason why its the best. The best Star Trek movies are all the ones that Roddenberry didn't like, the action-filled ones. The Undiscovered Country and The Wrath of Khan.
Nerd rant over, but open to more TNG discussion.
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zoegirl
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Re: Star Trek: The New Generation
lol, good rant
liked Voyager the best
You are right, TNG always did seem "sterile" and too clean. Although there were some interesting eps.
liked Voyager the best
You are right, TNG always did seem "sterile" and too clean. Although there were some interesting eps.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
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ultimate777
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Re: Star Trek: The New Generation
Report this postReply with quoteRe: Star Trek: The New Generation
by Byblos on Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:10 am
ultimate777 wrote:
Are there any ST:TNG fans here? If so, I think there are some things about Data we can discuss here that would be relevent to this board. I wonder if you can guess where I am coming from?
Err, morality perhaps?
Data's "father" created Lore with total free will with disasterous results for Lore and himself and many others. So then he created Data with lots of initiative and self awareness, Data even IIRC captained a war ship in a great battle, but without the ability to want to sin. People often say humans are in jeopardy of going to hell because we misuse this great gift of free will without which we would be automatans. Like Data?
by Byblos on Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:10 am
ultimate777 wrote:
Are there any ST:TNG fans here? If so, I think there are some things about Data we can discuss here that would be relevent to this board. I wonder if you can guess where I am coming from?
Err, morality perhaps?
Data's "father" created Lore with total free will with disasterous results for Lore and himself and many others. So then he created Data with lots of initiative and self awareness, Data even IIRC captained a war ship in a great battle, but without the ability to want to sin. People often say humans are in jeopardy of going to hell because we misuse this great gift of free will without which we would be automatans. Like Data?