rick it is still called a theory, theory can be above scientific law as is the theory of gravity.
May I suggest to clarify this http://www.notjustatheory.com
While the author of this site confuses macro and micro evolution (micro is fact, macro is not) it does help to clarify the meaning of scientific laws, theory's, facts ect...
Rick, I do not like evolution. Would I prefer to believe in ID yes, I would. I go where scientific evidence leads and at this point in time there seems to be more evidence to support evolution. While macro evolution is not proven, it seems to be the most scientific provable theory out there.
I've read into ID, you might have known I used to be an theistic evolution, then I switched to OEC, now i'm to framework which is pretty similar to TE.
Think of this god made us and everything else pop out of nowhere right? Why did he stop? I do not see new dogs popping out of nowhere.
Evolution has not stopped, animals are still slowly adapting, we are even still adapting. Over a extremely long period of time those adaptations may lead to a creature in say 400k years that may be vastly superior to us.
Since we know and mainly accept micro evolution, it seems like macro is a stepping stone from it.
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RickD
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Re: Help
Why do you think God made everything pop out of nowhere?Think of this god made us and everything else pop out of nowhere right? Why did he stop? I do not see new dogs popping out of nowhere.
Evolution has not stopped, animals are still slowly adapting, we are even still adapting. Over a extremely long period of time those adaptations may lead to a creature in say 400k years that may be vastly superior to us.
Evolution, in a microevolution sense, hasn't stopped. Macro evolution isn't a natural next step from micro evolution. It's a huge leap, actually. One might say, a leap of faith.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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RickD
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It looks like a young earth creationist site. Their mocking of the Big Bang, shows that.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Murray
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As an OEC I presume you accept the scientific way the earth was created, numerous phases, ect...
God did not pop the earth into the way it was from nothing, it slowly EVOLVED into what it is today. Started off simple, grew more complex, kind of like us eh?
When I say popped out of nowhere I mean after god made the earth inhabitable in 3 billion years, he decided to make all animals correct? So then he nods his head and there appears a turtle, then he nods his head then comes a fish, then comes adam and eve, out of thin air. Now with that in mind do you truly expect the majority of scientists to believe that? That is not testable science.
Evolution does not in any way shape or form disprove god. I still believe in adam and eve (first humans with god given soul).
The very existence of a state of life/being confirms the existence of a greater being.
God did not pop the earth into the way it was from nothing, it slowly EVOLVED into what it is today. Started off simple, grew more complex, kind of like us eh?
When I say popped out of nowhere I mean after god made the earth inhabitable in 3 billion years, he decided to make all animals correct? So then he nods his head and there appears a turtle, then he nods his head then comes a fish, then comes adam and eve, out of thin air. Now with that in mind do you truly expect the majority of scientists to believe that? That is not testable science.
Evolution does not in any way shape or form disprove god. I still believe in adam and eve (first humans with god given soul).
The very existence of a state of life/being confirms the existence of a greater being.
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Can you please post bible verses that show animals and humans came out of thin air?When I say popped out of nowhere I mean after god made the earth inhabitable in 3 billion years, he decided to make all animals correct? So then he nods his head and there appears a turtle, then he nods his head then comes a fish, then comes adam and eve, out of thin air. Now with that in mind do you truly expect the majority of scientists to believe that? That is not testable science.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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RickD
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Re: Help
From the dust of the ground, perhaps. Genesis 2:7Murray wrote:Well rick if not out of thin air then from where?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Murray
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so men coming from dust is more scientifically testable than people appearing from air?
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http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/sld007.htmlMurray wrote:so men coming from dust is more scientifically testable than people appearing from air?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Murray
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That slide does not answer the question of how humans appearing from "dust" is scientifically testable.
ID does not argue how it is testable , they simply point out flaws in evolution.
An attack with no defense will never win a battle
ID does not argue how it is testable , they simply point out flaws in evolution.
An attack with no defense will never win a battle
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Murray, the text doesn't say humans "appeared" from the dust. What the text is saying IMO, is that God used what existed(dust of the ground), to form the physical part of man.Murray wrote:That slide does not answer the question of how humans appearing from "dust" is scientifically testable.
ID does not argue how it is testable , they simply point out flaws in evolution.
An attack with no defense will never win a battle
I'm not sure what you're looking to find, Murray. How does science prove things like the human mind(where thought originates), the soul of certain creatures, mathematical truths, absolute truths, etc.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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RickD
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Murray, I couldn't disagree more with your assertion that macro evolution is the" most scientific provable theory out there.". I'm not going to debate you about that here, but there are plenty of links that discuss that.Rick, I do not like evolution. Would I prefer to believe in ID yes, I would. I go where scientific evidence leads and at this point in time there seems to be more evidence to support evolution. While macro evolution is not proven, it seems to be the most scientific provable theory out there.
Murray, you're like a boat being tossed about by the sea. You study one system, believe that. Then study another, change your mind, and believe that. Oops, now I've studied framework, so I've changed my mind again. While I commend your determination, don't you see any problem with this?I've read into ID, you might have known I used to be an theistic evolution, then I switched to OEC, now i'm to framework which is pretty similar to TE.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: Help
RickD wrote:From the dust of the ground, perhaps. Genesis 2:7Murray wrote:Well rick if not out of thin air then from where?
Ouch... Embarrassing! 
Micro vs. macro is a misnomer. We know that living organisms change - adaptation and natural selection are at work, but we have no evidence that it will lead to a species "evolving", so I don't see why those processes should be called "microevolution" or "whatever-evolution". If a fish adapts to toxic waters it lives in, it's still a fish - it won't grow legs and crawl out of the water, that's for sure.Murray wrote:While the author of this site confuses macro and micro evolution (micro is fact, macro is not) it does help to clarify the meaning of scientific laws, theory's, facts ect...
How is it most provable if, after 150 years, it still hasn't been proven. It often seems like it's close, but there's always that little, tiny "if" or "maybe" in the way.Murray wrote:Rick, I do not like evolution. Would I prefer to believe in ID yes, I would. I go where scientific evidence leads and at this point in time there seems to be more evidence to support evolution. While macro evolution is not proven, it seems to be the most scientific provable theory out there.
I flirted with YEC for a short time, but I settled with OEC when I finally examined all the evidence. You still haven't said why you abandoned OEC? You keep throwing some links at us like you want it to be true, you say that you don't like it, but you don't bring up any specific concerns about evolution. I must say that I don't understand you at all.Murray wrote:I've read into ID, you might have known I used to be an theistic evolution, then I switched to OEC, now i'm to framework which is pretty similar to TE.
Why would He? Since the species and the life-sustaining conditions were created, dogs have been able to breed perfectly well, there's no need for creating new ones.Murray wrote:Think of this god made us and everything else pop out of nowhere right? Why did he stop? I do not see new dogs popping out of nowhere.
http://creation.com/don-t-fall-for-the-bait-and-switchMurray wrote:Evolution has not stopped, animals are still slowly adapting, we are even still adapting. Over a extremely long period of time those adaptations may lead to a creature in say 400k years that may be vastly superior to us.
Since we know and mainly accept micro evolution, it seems like macro is a stepping stone from it.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6
"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
--Reactionary
"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
--Reactionary
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Murray
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I've read into YEC, but you do not see me believing that. I still read into OEC but I do not believe that, I've read into gap creationism yet I do not believe that.....
And when did I discuss the manner of souls, thoughts ect...
I'm pretty sold on that being supernatural in a sense, but I fail to see logic of any level of "God used what existed(dust of the ground), to form the physical part of man". Certain things cannot be explained, such as the existence of life, by scientific means; but our creation shows evidence of a scientific explanation (evolution).
Science does not explain the resurrection of Jesus, but does that mean we should ignore science? Some thing can be explained unlike the resurrection, and our creation is certainly one that may be compatible with scientific explanation.
And when did I discuss the manner of souls, thoughts ect...
I'm pretty sold on that being supernatural in a sense, but I fail to see logic of any level of "God used what existed(dust of the ground), to form the physical part of man". Certain things cannot be explained, such as the existence of life, by scientific means; but our creation shows evidence of a scientific explanation (evolution).
Science does not explain the resurrection of Jesus, but does that mean we should ignore science? Some thing can be explained unlike the resurrection, and our creation is certainly one that may be compatible with scientific explanation.
in nomine patri et fili spiritu sancte