Original Sin, and babies who die

[Christian2]

I read Rich Deem's article

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html

I believe babies and small children go to heaven if they die.

Most Protestants who I have discussed this with agree with me.

But most Roman Catholics do not agree.

What do you all say?

What is the Roman Catholic position on this? Byblos?

Thanks.

[Byblos]

I read Rich Deem's article

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html

I believe babies and small children go to heaven if they die.

Most Protestants who I have discussed this with agree with me.

But most Roman Catholics do not agree.

What do you all say?

What is the Roman Catholic position on this? Byblos?

Thanks.

You're going to hear a lot of talk about Limbo and so forth but as far as I know there is no official pronouncement from the Church, a lot of opinions from some pretty influential people but still, nothing official. The official position is that they are left in God's mercy.

[domokunrox]

Babies are completely innocent. Anyone who believes that babies have done anything defined as evil needs to get their head checked.

[Christian2]

I read Rich Deem's article

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html

I believe babies and small children go to heaven if they die.

Most Protestants who I have discussed this with agree with me.

But most Roman Catholics do not agree.

What do you all say?

What is the Roman Catholic position on this? Byblos?

Thanks.

You're going to hear a lot of talk about Limbo and so forth but as far as I know there is no official pronouncement from the Church, a lot of opinions from some pretty influential people but still, nothing official. The official position is that they are left in God's mercy.

Thanks, Byblos.

From what I have read there was a position within the RCC that any child not baptised were doomed to hell; however, that view has changed. Now the position is that we (RC's) do not know for sure, but hope that they are with God.

How does "original sin" play into this?

My position would be that babies are in the state that Adam was BEFORE he disobeyed God, meaning they are innocent.

What do you think of Augustine's position?

Thanks.

[Christian2]

Babies are completely innocent. Anyone who believes that babies have done anything defined as evil needs to get their head checked.

The argument is that babies are stained by original sin.

I don't agree.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Recently one of my friends nephew was hospitalized at 14 months old with an inoperable tumor inside his abdominal cavity it was inoperable as it was too close to major organs, thank the Lord it had not metastasized too the rest of his small body and he is currently receiving chemotherapy. I was dreading the conversation i was going to have with him as i don't deal well with death, i never know what to say and i always feel i am going to say the wrong thing. I prayed for little Leo for weeks and also prayed for the Lords wisdom that i might find the words to give comfort to my friend, well the time eventually came when we were driving to basketball we started talking about Leo and the subject came up of what would happen if the worst did happen. He told me that he didn't want to think about it because it was doing his head in because it was all if's, buts and maybes, I really felt God's presence that night and the words came from my mouth with ease. I told him that the God i knew was a just God and how would he be just if he thew a baby into hell when they never had a chance to choose, God is just and justice will be done and the innocent will have justice. My friend looked at me and thanked me, he said he felt a lot better and everything seemed a little clearer.
Praise be to God

Daniel

[B. W.]

Listen to what Jesus said...

Mark 10:13, 14c, "Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God." NKJV

Matthew 18:10, 11c, "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost." NKJV

I think that says enough...
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[domokunrox]

Babies are completely innocent. Anyone who believes that babies have done anything defined as evil needs to get their head checked.

The argument is that babies are stained by original sin.

I don't agree.

Sin as in morally bad. Evil.

In otherwords, innocent because babies are incapable of knowing and doing evil. They only know that they NEED life. They want it. They long for it. They cry for it. It is the ONLY way to live. Sound familiar? BW has great bible verses tho.

[Byblos]

From what I have read there was a position within the RCC that any child not baptised were doomed to hell; however, that view has changed. Now the position is that we (RC's) do not know for sure, but hope that they are with God.

How does "original sin" play into this?

My position would be that babies are in the state that Adam was BEFORE he disobeyed God, meaning they are innocent.

What do you think of Augustine's position?

Thanks.

Original sin has a lot to do with it as without it there would, theoretically, be no need for a savior. Our sin nature is the direct result of that first (original) sin (Romans 5:12) and the only way to remove the stain of this first sin is through Christ (and become adoptive sons and heirs to the promise). As for unbaptized children, like I said, it is left in God's infinite mercy.

[Christian2]

Listen to what Jesus said...

Mark 10:13, 14c, "Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God." NKJV

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This verse what cited in the article noted in the OP.

It pretty much sums up what the Messiah Jesus thought.

[Christian2]

From what I have read there was a position within the RCC that any child not baptised were doomed to hell; however, that view has changed. Now the position is that we (RC's) do not know for sure, but hope that they are with God.

How does "original sin" play into this?

My position would be that babies are in the state that Adam was BEFORE he disobeyed God, meaning they are innocent.

What do you think of Augustine's position?

Thanks.

As for unbaptized children, like I said, it is left in God's infinite mercy.

Has the Roman Catholic Church changed its position on this? It seems it has based on what I have read. Now the position is that they hope they go to heaven, but they are not sure.

[B. W.]

Little toddlers and children are moldable – pliable. Due to the development of the human brain, they do not have the reasoning capabilities of an adult. Besides that, their moral reasoning can still be shaped. So I find Jesus’ words on this matter to be based on fact and why such are not forbidden to come to him, if they were to pass on as young.
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[Byblos]

From what I have read there was a position within the RCC that any child not baptised were doomed to hell; however, that view has changed. Now the position is that we (RC's) do not know for sure, but hope that they are with God.

How does "original sin" play into this?

My position would be that babies are in the state that Adam was BEFORE he disobeyed God, meaning they are innocent.

What do you think of Augustine's position?

Thanks.

As for unbaptized children, like I said, it is left in God's infinite mercy.

Has the Roman Catholic Church changed its position on this? It seems it has based on what I have read. Now the position is that they hope they go to heaven, but they are not sure.

There was no official church position to change (in the form of an ex-cathedra pronouncement), only personal positions (of some bishops and/or popes) but nothing official.

[PaulSacramento]

When we die, at ANY stage, our spirit returns to God.
That is no different from children of infants of course.
There is only ONE hat decides who is saved and that is Our Judge.
No human can make that call, no "point-of view" can speak for Him.
God decides through Christ.
When a baby dies, it's spirit returns from where it came.

[Christian2]

From what I have read there was a position within the RCC that any child not baptised were doomed to hell; however, that view has changed. Now the position is that we (RC's) do not know for sure, but hope that they are with God.

How does "original sin" play into this?

My position would be that babies are in the state that Adam was BEFORE he disobeyed God, meaning they are innocent.

What do you think of Augustine's position?

Thanks.

As for unbaptized children, like I said, it is left in God's infinite mercy.

Has the Roman Catholic Church changed its position on this? It seems it has based on what I have read. Now the position is that they hope they go to heaven, but they are not sure.

There was no official church position to change (in the form of an ex-cathedra pronouncement), only personal positions (of some bishops and/or popes) but nothing official.

OK, that makes sense. Some read the opinions of the ECF's on any subject and think that is what the RCC teaches.