jlay wrote:Byb,
I said it 'seems.' My perspective is that it is contrary. I agree that evolution being true doesn't negate a theistic god. I just don't see it at all being consistent or in line with Christian Theism.
I actually see it being very in line with Christianity. I tend to believe that we are designed in god image, AKA thinking machines, if we take it from the prospective of our creations, it may help to understand how evolution not only is consistent with the concept of a Christian god, but it would be a testament to his elegance. To me the greatest designs that humans create and that God creates are ones built upon simplicity and elegance. Why do we humans find such elegance in simplicity? Very complex systems that are built on foundations of simplicity layered on top of each other are some of the most amazing creations to behold, they are so easy to understand, but we are still able to add layers and layers that do more and more complex things.
Let take the computer, the closest thing that we have invented to man. It is a primitive thinking machine, what is more amazing about the computer is not that it thinks on a primitive level, but that all though boils down to either 0 or 1, true or false, if we look at Babbage machine (the first computational machine) as the original life form it helps to understand how things evolve, that core principal of Boolean logic, true or false has been the foundation for almost 100 years. The iPhone while not resembling the first computer forms relies on the very same basic elegant principals as the first machines, from vacuum tubes to transistors, the property of how computational machines work at the most basic level has not changed. Now imagine that one day an ancestor of that computational linage becomes self aware. It becomes for all intents and purposes a free willed thinking machine. Does that not set it apart from the rest, does that not some how make it special. It is an event horizon, while it is the same building blocks as it's ancestors, it is by all definitions not the same thing.
Now imagine that we had far more capacity for creativity, lets imagine that that capacity is infinite, not only could we maintain elegance, but within that elegance we could write logic so that it evolves itself. That is far more elegant than anything that we have created, through the basic organic building blocks of chemistry (which are far more basic than the vacuum tube or the transistor) God designed a machine that was not only more elegant than our thinking machines but was able to improve upon itself. The elegance of evolution is one of the things that brought me, a devout Agnostic into believing that it had to be by design, it is most certainly a system of information and logic very similar to our own computers. The fact that at a certain point God separated the same thing (DNA machines) into one with an eternal free willed spirit is testimony to the fact that god can out of the same make difference. That is a very elegant design.
There are a lot of problems with trying to use the creation stories which where directed, to not only help us, but also men of a different time to explain how God built it. The most obvious that we should remember is there is no beginning or end to God, he exist outside of the constraints of time, so we have to ask ourselves why would he constrain himself to time if he exists outside of it. He created the laws of physics and I believe that everything he does in our universe is done via them, event the miracles, but I believe that he uses them in the manner that we use a hammer as a tool. Not as a container.
If it is not reviled in the bible and it does not contradict the bible then they are not matters of consequential faith. Science and knowledge is gods greatest gift to man, and if we reveal truths about the nature of God in the course of human history all the better, I believe god delights in it, as much as we delight in our children discovering how to solve a math problem on their own. God delights in knowledge, so long as we ground it in his word. If it directly contradicts the word we should be suspect, but we should understand the argument so that we can be suspect from a position of knowledge, but there is very little concerning scientific matters that are spelled out in the bible and the ones that are are consistent with what we know about the world we live in.
With the creation story, we do know that animals where created first, if the accounts of creation stated that man where created first, then we would have an issue, because either science is wrong or the bible is wrong. As it sits the only item that is truly at issue in biblical creation is the 7 man days being, applied to god. But we have direct word from god that 1000 years are like a day and a day is like 1000 years. Which basically means time is irrelevant to god, and then we go back to creation and we know that we should put little emphasis on the time, because god directly informed us that time is irrelevant. It could very well have been 7 acts that took place. There is some contention as to why he would need to rest, if they where not consecutive, but he could have rested as an example being a leader means leading by example which is everything that Jesus taught, the point being it is not critical, because the bible does not say anything for or against it, armed with what we know from the bible we can say for sure that it is possible and if science proves it and it does not contradict the bible than we should accept that truth.
Proverbs is very clear on willful ignorance not being gods standard. Not saying that people that question evolution from either side are willfully ignorant, but there are some that use the bible to remain willfully ignorant and refute all scientific knowledge. Which is an impossible position to maintain, we where created in god's image and therefore we can stand in testament to his wonders, we have the capacity to understand some of it, and to refute it not only ignores that reality, but it misses an opportunity to observe and witness the glory of god at a deeper level. When I was an Agnostic, I used to find the order of things fascinating, now guided by gods wisdom, it is absolutely majestic. To know God designed all living things through 4 basic molecules, bares witness to his majesty on such a profound level that just is not gained from reading about stories that took place a long time ago. Seeing God's fingerprint in creation, makes God the living god, which is the most profound reality one can witness and brings about a peace that no human word can describe.
