Philip wrote:knew a woman I worked with - she had a Phd from Harvard. She was convinced that a ghost in the neighborhood frequently dropped in and had even gone for a ride in the car with her and her boyfriend. Most of those I've known with such stories are real non-nonsense, serious, intelligent people.
I'm wondering...why are all the highly-educated/intelligent-people you know raving nut cases who believe in ghosts? Are you posting from a...hospital? A funny hospital?
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
Anything that seems to be "just a dead person"'s spirit or anything else I would not trust. The devil does have dominion over the earth and he is far more powerful than we are and knows how to trick us.
StMonica, since Satan is so powerful, and knows how to trick us, and 2Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, how does one discern if an "apparition" is of God, or Satan or a demon masquerading as an angel, a saint, the Blessed Mother, Jesus Himself, etc?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Kenzel wrote:I've heard a ton of stories where a ghost would visit their loved ones, spouse, children, etc... and tell them that they're fine in the afterlife, that they can stop worrying about them, and that they can move on with their lives. If it were to be a demon, then why would it try to bring closure like that?
There could be many reasons. Possibly an investment of good feelings now, for a return of deliciously horrifying feelings later.
I.E., "Mom made it to the afterlife just fine and she wasn't a Christian or religious or anything. I guess that means that I don't have to be either."
Or possibly "I was able to get in touch with mom once, so I should be able to get in touch with her again to ask for advice."
Anything that seems to be "just a dead person"'s spirit or anything else I would not trust. The devil does have dominion over the earth and he is far more powerful than we are and knows how to trick us.
StMonica, since Satan is so powerful, and knows how to trick us, and 2Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, how does one discern if an "apparition" is of God, or Satan or a demon masquerading as an angel, a saint, the Blessed Mother, Jesus Himself, etc?
My guess would be whether or not what it tells you lines up with the word of God.
Anything that seems to be "just a dead person"'s spirit or anything else I would not trust. The devil does have dominion over the earth and he is far more powerful than we are and knows how to trick us.
StMonica, since Satan is so powerful, and knows how to trick us, and 2Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, how does one discern if an "apparition" is of God, or Satan or a demon masquerading as an angel, a saint, the Blessed Mother, Jesus Himself, etc?
My guess would be whether or not what it tells you lines up with the word of God.
I would have the same guess. And if it wasn't speaking the word of God, then if we started saying it ourselves, the reaction of the spirit would probably tell us, eg: whether or not it can stand to hear the name of Jesus or anything like that. I think God would be fair to us if we trusted Him to keep us away from those things
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".
Anything that seems to be "just a dead person"'s spirit or anything else I would not trust. The devil does have dominion over the earth and he is far more powerful than we are and knows how to trick us.
StMonica, since Satan is so powerful, and knows how to trick us, and 2Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, how does one discern if an "apparition" is of God, or Satan or a demon masquerading as an angel, a saint, the Blessed Mother, Jesus Himself, etc?
My guess would be whether or not what it tells you lines up with the word of God.
I would have the same guess. And if it wasn't speaking the word of God, then if we started saying it ourselves, the reaction of the spirit would probably tell us, eg: whether or not it can stand to hear the name of Jesus or anything like that. I think God would be fair to us if we trusted Him to keep us away from those things
ok, StMonica. But what if we did something that opened the " door" so to speak, for the demons to appear to us? Would we still trust God to keep us away from those things?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
That's a really, really good point, Rick. I hadn't thought of the "open door" possibility. Here I am just assuming (and you know what they say about that!) I read something a few months back actually about what to do in that case. If one believes that they have opened the door to evil things (for example, through Ouiji boards, horoscopes, palm reader nonsense, seances, etc) and learns it's wrong, then they can do a little "exorcism" of the influence they may have introduced. But this relies on the individual's knowledge of the damage they're doing...
So I guess the short answer is just don't go there? LOL
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".
Philip wrote:knew a woman I worked with - she had a Phd from Harvard. She was convinced that a ghost in the neighborhood frequently dropped in and had even gone for a ride in the car with her and her boyfriend. Most of those I've known with such stories are real non-nonsense, serious, intelligent people.
I'm wondering...why are all the highly-educated/intelligent-people you know raving nut cases who believe in ghosts? Are you posting from a...hospital? A funny hospital?
FL
No, actually these are people I have met over a 30-year period. Not more than about 5 people. All were sober, no-nonsense types, all but one with a college degree (although that doesn't mean anything). One guy really clammed up when I kidded him a bit - very serious type of person. Also he not only described the ghost but also its frequent re-arrangements of furniture in their kitchen (over different nights). It was disturbing hearing this from someone I knew to be a straight shooter. The Harvard grad really freaked me out, as she just talked of it so matter of fact.
I do not understand why ghosts "haunt" things..... Like what does knocking on the wood on someones house or re-arranging their furniture do to accomplish anything?
and do you think it is bad to to attempt speak to ghosts?
Murray wrote:I do not understand why ghosts "haunt" things..... Like what does knocking on the wood on someones house or re-arranging their furniture do to accomplish anything?
and do you think it is bad to to attempt speak to ghosts?
They're trying to get attention. They're wanting you to attempt to communicate. This could be for any number of reasons ranging from the desire to cause fear, waste a great deal of your time, or gain some sort of hold on you in your life. They appear to feed off energy spent focused on them- especially fear.
Attempting communication with them lets them know that you're open to them being involved with you. You're "opening the door" for them to invade, so to speak.
Don't think ghosts can hurt us physically. And honestly, I'd wonder if there was really a "ghost" if that wasn't a demonic presence. We believe that people who have died are "sleeping" until the final judgment. Why the heck would they want to deal with us anymore? And depending on whether or not their spirits are housed in purgatory or even hell, I don't think those boundaries cross into our dimension. I wonder if those in heaven would even visit, unless they were told by God to. Seriously. Why would you want to leave the realm of God once you're in? Earth will be nothing in comparison.
Angels/Demons definitely could protect/hurt us, I think. We believe angels prevent harm from coming to us if it's God's will. I'm sure the demons have the same type of dominion. I once read somewhere that they do even the littlest things sometimes to try and get us to be even just agitated, like bumping our elbows into things and instilling a thought to exclaim negatively; using the Lord's name in vain or swearing, just as a small example. Oy. You'd think they could just lay off.
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".
