Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
Passion's better in your heart than your foot, MM! Or your head for that matter, if you actually have one and aren't a mindless beast prowling around "hunting" for sarcasm victims!
Got 'cha there!
I don't feel like writing anything so just imagine that the Sith is my sharp wit and the Jedi is your ego.
I have no specific theoligical objection - if you can show that her remaining a virgin is not contradictory to the scriptures then I'm fine with it. I'm interested to see how you'll address those verses. We're all waiting. But take your time to do it as well as you can.
Mary, after having Jesus, had absolutely no reason at all to remain a virgin. When she got impregnated with Jesus, she married Joseph and ran off to Bethlehem. After having Jesus, she had the Holy Son, and a husband. Why should a wife and husband remain virgins after being married?
Like on the movie Dogma "Jesus was conceived a virgin, but thinking a married couple is going to stay virgins forever is just gullible." Paraphrased quote.
Not to be off-topic, but after seeing "Dogma" I cried because of how offensive and sinful it was. And I'm not a cry-baby! I shiver whenever it gets mentioned!
kateliz wrote:Not to be off-topic, but after seeing "Dogma" I cried because of how offensive and sinful it was. And I'm not a cry-baby! I shiver whenever it gets mentioned!
voicingmaster wrote:Mary, after having Jesus, had absolutely no reason at all to remain a virgin. When she got impregnated with Jesus, she married Joseph and ran off to Bethlehem. After having Jesus, she had the Holy Son, and a husband. Why should a wife and husband remain virgins after being married?
Like on the movie Dogma "Jesus was conceived a virgin, but thinking a married couple is going to stay virgins forever is just gullible." Paraphrased quote.
The Virgin Mary was already married when she gave birth to Christ. Most Christians believe she was a virgin until her death. If your wife gave birth to God, would you dare touch her? Maybe in your case, according to your post, you would.
Poetic_Soul wrote:You can also use scripture from the old testament. "Be fruitful and multiply." Why would God ordain marriage without sex? Wouldn't they need children to tend the household?
Some clain that Mary died a virgin.
I fail to see what this has to do with whether Mary had children or not.
Becauase some people claim that she DIED A VIRGIN.
And how does your quote prove she didn't? Jesus also said it's better to remain celibate but if one's will isn't strong enough, marry. In ancient times people didn't necessarily mary out of love, they also married out of need. Mary could have easily married because she needed a husband to take care of her (and this way neither of them would be looked down upon by a society that expected its memebers to marry) while both of them agreeing to remain chaste. Or her agreeing to remain chaste.
If this was so, Mary would of not married Joseph due to the fact that he was poor himself. In those days, in order to profit from your occupation was to have many children. God would not ordain a marriage without sex. Joseph is just a man with the same needs as you and I. Let's see you get married and lay next to your wife and feel content without touching her........ [/b]
If this was so, Mary would of not married Joseph due to the fact that he was poor himself. In those days, in order to profit from your occupation was to have many children. God would not ordain a marriage without sex. Joseph is just a man with the same needs as you and I. Let's see you get married and lay next to your wife and feel content without touching her........ [/b][/b]
I can touch her without having any actual sex but I won't get into that. Back on topic, what would have happened to Mary if she would've given birth to Jesus without a husband? Can you say stoned?
voicingmaster wrote:Mary, after having Jesus, had absolutely no reason at all to remain a virgin. When she got impregnated with Jesus, she married Joseph and ran off to Bethlehem. After having Jesus, she had the Holy Son, and a husband. Why should a wife and husband remain virgins after being married?
Like on the movie Dogma "Jesus was conceived a virgin, but thinking a married couple is going to stay virgins forever is just gullible." Paraphrased quote.
The Virgin Mary was already married when she gave birth to Christ. Most Christians believe she was a virgin until her death. If your wife gave birth to God, would you dare touch her? Maybe in your case, according to your post, you would.
Unless it says so in the Bible that she stayed a virgin until death, I see no reason to believe so. I mean, after getting married why would anybody want to be a virgin until they die? Sex, in marriage, is a good thing, nothing sinful about it. Remaining a virgin until death doesn't do you a lick of good, you're just hurting yourself by missing out on such a thing, unless of course you stay single until you die(which Mary didn't). I mean, Mary and Joseph probably would have the same desires as you and I, and God gave no instruction that I can find in the Bible, for her to stay a virgin.
kateliz wrote:Not to be off-topic, but after seeing "Dogma" I cried because of how offensive and sinful it was. And I'm not a cry-baby! I shiver whenever it gets mentioned!
I agree with you though.
Yeah, it's just a movie and shouldn't be accepted as fact. But that one particular quote was relevant, so I figured why not.
voicingmaster wrote:Mary, after having Jesus, had absolutely no reason at all to remain a virgin. When she got impregnated with Jesus, she married Joseph and ran off to Bethlehem. After having Jesus, she had the Holy Son, and a husband. Why should a wife and husband remain virgins after being married?
Like on the movie Dogma "Jesus was conceived a virgin, but thinking a married couple is going to stay virgins forever is just gullible." Paraphrased quote.
The Virgin Mary was already married when she gave birth to Christ. Most Christians believe she was a virgin until her death. If your wife gave birth to God, would you dare touch her? Maybe in your case, according to your post, you would.
Unless it says so in the Bible that she stayed a virgin until death, I see no reason to believe so. I mean, after getting married why would anybody want to be a virgin until they die? Sex, in marriage, is a good thing, nothing sinful about it. Remaining a virgin until death doesn't do you a lick of good, you're just hurting yourself by missing out on such a thing, unless of course you stay single until you die(which Mary didn't). I mean, Mary and Joseph probably would have the same desires as you and I, and God gave no instruction that I can find in the Bible, for her to stay a virgin.
Believing she remained a virgin has it's basis in ignorance. Do you not know that God gave sex as a holy gift to married couples? Do you not know that even after Mary gave birth to Jesus it would not be sinful but instead a holy thing for Mary and Joseph to accept this gift? Do you not recognize that there's no historical but only speculatory proof for such a thought? Do not call man's speculations or assumptions history, lest you be found a liar because of their mistakes. Trust your Bible, God wrote it and He does not make mistakes!
Believing she remained a virgin has it's basis in ignorance. Do you not know that God gave sex as a holy gift to married couples? Do you not know that even after Mary gave birth to Jesus it would not be sinful but instead a holy thing for Mary and Joseph to accept this gift? Do you not recognize that there's no historical but only speculatory proof for such a thought? Do not call man's speculations or assumptions history, lest you be found a liar because of their mistakes. Trust your Bible, God wrote it and He does not make mistakes!
And if Veronica is right about Jesus's brothers and sisters, there really is no proof either way.
Let's just say Mary died a virgin. How do you explain Joseph's urges? Is he not a man with needs? You can speculate that Mary married Joseph to prevent being stoned but if God bonded them together I would assume that they would have been in love. And if they were in love, then there has to be intimacy.
Do we not love God and God loves us? Is there not intimacy with our God? This is what we as born again christians have that nobody else has. A personal relationship with God. Intamacy at the fullest.
[/b]
But take your time to do it as well as you can.