Secured Salvation

[B. W.]

John 6:44
44 No-one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

On an entirely different subject (the underlined), predestination anyone? Sorry, couldn't help pointing that out, considering how the subject has exploded on the scene recently.

How does the Father Draw?
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[jlay]

How does the Father Draw?

With a Derwent Graphic Pencil. Only the best!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[jestes]

John 6:44
44 No-one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

On an entirely different subject (the underlined), predestination anyone? Sorry, couldn't help pointing that out, considering how the subject has exploded on the scene recently.

How does the Father Draw?
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Paul says his love and kindness drives us to repentance. Other places in the Bible we see people coming to him because they are broken and have hit rock bottom. Sometimes God himself seems to have done the breaking. Read through Isaiah. I personally feel that God puts himself out there in so many ways it's impossible to fathom. Have you ever had unrequited love for a girl and spent countless hours trying think of a way to get her to love you back? Imagine having love and patience that was truly infinite. Just think of how hard you would try to get her to notice.

[RickD]

How does the Father Draw?

With a Derwent Graphic Pencil. Only the best!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I was going to answer "Etch-A-Sketch", but I thought it may be inappropriate. Nice going JLAY.

[B. W.]

How does the Father Draw?

With a Derwent Graphic Pencil. Only the best!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

That was used for the blue print for Adam - no less

Good answer - I needed that!
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[B. W.]

...Paul says his love and kindness drives us to repentance. Other places in the Bible we see people coming to him because they are broken and have hit rock bottom. Sometimes God himself seems to have done the breaking. Read through Isaiah. I personally feel that God puts himself out there in so many ways it's impossible to fathom. Have you ever had unrequited love for a girl and spent countless hours trying think of a way to get her to love you back? Imagine having love and patience that was truly infinite. Just think of how hard you would try to get her to notice.

Excellent answer…

Next - using the American English Idiom – one can say, “God Ropes Them In,” similarly how you described.

Or nets them in just as a fisherman cast a next and draws the fish in toward the helpers...
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[RickD]

If you neglect your relationship, it WILL fall apart. Our relationship with God is without a doubt a special one, but don't shrug it off as if you don't need to work on that relationship. The very thought of a baptism and walk away comes to mind immediately especially when becoming a Christian DOES NOT take much education.

I agree, that in any relationship, the work you do reflects on how healthy the relationship is. But that's just talking about the "health" of the relationship. Not the security of the relationship.

I have NO DOUBT in my mind that much like marriage with a spouse that we can and often do break our promises. On purpose? We don't try to. But sometimes we do! We sometimes do it on accident and those are easier to deal with. But its those ones that we do on purpose and we do not RECONCILE with our love that puts the relationship in jeopardy. The question is, can you break your promise with God and not reconcile with him? Absolutely! Where would that put you when the end comes? I wouldn't bet the farm that I'm "sealed" in with God.

We absolutely break our promises. We are imperfect sinners. God is not. His promises will always be true. He cannot lie.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

This is not fair and it would not be just of God to accept someone into heaven who freely walked away from him for the worldly desire instead after you break your promise to him.

Fair, says who? God has sealed the true believer with the Holy Spirit. This "seal" is a guarantee from God. It's a guarantee, from God, because of who He is, and not because of who we are. God's promises are not contingent on us. If they were, He would be a pretty weak God, wouldn't He?

[zacchaeus]

...Romans 7:17

obviously parenthetical chapter and a figurative verse

How can sin cause you to sin? That's like saying sin started itself and sin was the first to sin; sound dumb, good point! MAN sinned... MAN sins!!!

The apostle here clearly has Christian principles and says he does things that he doesn't even want to do... this expresses humans as finite beings with sinful natures. Our spirit, soul, mind, heart, and flesh are always at war!!! Why would they war unless either one had the same ability and chances of succeeding. Contrast with "the Spirit of God dwells" in the Christian, Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 3:16. The sense is, that he is strongly influenced by sin on the one hand, and by the Spirit on the other.

Every Christian can say he doesn't choose to do evil, but yearns to be perfect; that he hates sin, and yet that his corrupt passions lead him astray. This struggle then is between the desire of the believer and the sin nature of man.

Paul comes to a conclusion regarding what he wants to do and the Sin Nature that is in him. He is not seeking to rationalize his sin or absolve himself from its responsibility. He is not saying "the devil made me do it." What he is saying is that there is a conflict between rational thinking and sins. He says in his rational mind "NO", but he ends up in sin anyway.

[Bill McEnaney]

Danny and friends,

I don't believe in secured salvation. In my opinion, neither did the Early Church. If it interests you. please read Chapter 16 of a first or second-century document called The Didache.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... tfoot.html

For me, 1 John 5:15-17, is more evidence against secured salvation because that passage says there's a difference between a sin unto death and a sin that's not unto death. In the Revised Standard Version, that passage even includes the phrase "mortal sin." Some people tell me that St. John is distinguishing between sins that lead to physical death and those that don't do that. But that interpretation is hard to believe that most people die anyway.

16:1 {Be watchful} for your life;
16:2 {let your lamps not be quenched and your loins not ungirded, but be ye ready;
16:3 for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh.}
16:4 And ye shall gather yourselves together frequently, seeking what is fitting for your souls;
16:5 for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you, if ye be not perfected at the last season.
16:6 For in the last days {the false prophets} and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate.
16:7 For as lawlessness increaseth, {they shall hate one another and shall persecute and betray.
16:8 And then} the world-deceiver {shall appear} as a son of God;
16:9 {and shall work signs and wonders,} and the earth shall be delivered into his hands;
16:10 and he shall do unholy things, which have never been since the world began.
16:11 Then all created mankind shall come to the fire of testing, and many shall be offended and perish;
16:12 {but they that endure} in their faith {shall be saved} by the Curse Himself.
16:13 {And then shall the signs} of the truth {appear;}
16:14 first a sign of a rift in the heaven, then a sign of a voice of a trumpet, and thirdly a resurrection of the dead;
16:15 yet not of all, but as it was said:
16:16 {The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him.
16:17 Then shall} the world {see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.}