Mark 11:24

[mum1983]

"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. "

Thoughts anyone?

[jlay]

Context, context, context.

So often at the center of prayer we find self. God do this, or God do that. Obviously, based on the condition of the world, that is not what Jesus had in mind here. What is the purpose of prayer? Is it so we can ask things of God? God take away this wart in my life? God, listening, says, "Hmmm, sounds like a good idea. Ok, swoosh, wart gone."
I would say the whole counsel of God demonstrates that prayer is a place where we can align our minds to that of God's. It is in its purest sense a place of submission where we seek out the will of God, that we know what it is to ask for. Simple question. If we ask God for something that we KNOW is of His will, will He refuse? Of course not.

So, in this verse it is easy to get caught up on the "whatever," and neglect what "prayer" is in the first place. The "whatever" must comply to the subject of prayer, not the other way around.

[mum1983]

At the moment my private struggle is with anxiety and depression. I would like to think it is God's will that I am well and happy. He has blessed me with a caring husband and 4 beautiful children. I pray that in time I will be healed. I pray about this every day and every night, alongside praising God for my blessings. The trouble is believeing that I have received it (the answer to my prayer) because life is a rollercoaster and just when you think you have been healed (like I did a few weeks ago) something comes along and hits you hard and you find yourself in a difficult place.

[jlay]

Ephesians says that we (believers) are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. It isn't a matter of if or when. We are. But the blessings are in heavenly places. Ofter our minds are in worldly places.

One of the most amazing women out there is Joni Eareckson Tada. Sounds like you would really benefit from her work. Being a woman, and one who has dealt with unbelievable struggles.
Here is a link to her site. http://www.joniandfriends.org/daily-devotional/

I would like to think it is God's will that I am well and happy.

May I ask, sincerely, how did you come to this conclusion?

[mum1983]

Ephesians says that we (believers) are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. It isn't a matter of if or when. We are. But the blessings are in heavenly places. Ofter our minds are in worldly places.

And so are our bodies. Chemical imbalances and genetics and our upbringing all have a part to play.

One of the most amazing women out there is Joni Eareckson Tada. Sounds like you would really benefit from her work. Being a woman, and one who has dealt with unbelievable struggles.
Here is a link to her site. http://www.joniandfriends.org/daily-devotional/

I am familiar with Joni's story (through my mother who read her books years ago) but yes, I think I will read her books for myself.

I would like to think it is God's will that I am well and happy.

May I ask, sincerely, how did you come to this conclusion?

Because if I think otherwise, than I have no hope.

[jlay]

Because if I think otherwise, than I have no hope.

Mum,
i just want to point out that this is something we call a fallacy of consequence. The thinking is that, "this must be true, because if it isn't, I will be....unhappy, hopeless." What I am challenging you to look at is to examine and see if your motives might be driven by a faulty concept of what God wants for you. It could very well be that God wants you well. (I'm assuming you mean mentally fit.) However, just like Joni, many believers have to endure a thorn that God will not remove. God can remove the thorn, but if he doesn't He will always give us what we need to endure or overcome.

So, the question is always, does our belief match up to scripture. If we examine scripture we can see that believers were not immune to suffering, torment, etc. If we look at Paul and Silas after they were arrested, beaten and imprisoned, we see that some other state of mind has overcome their conditional circumstances. Anyone would agree that these men should be in anquish and dispair. Yet, they prayed and praised. Because they 'felt' like it? I doubt it. Their trust in Christ sourced them to rise above dispair and experience victory even in this dark hour. They were living in the heavenly places even though they were suffering in the world. This same heavenly reality is available to EVERY believer. But how is it accessed? Faith. Believing God, and His Word. Jesus says, He as OVERCOME the world. (John 16:33)

So often we are selfishly asking, "God remove this thorn," when it is not His will. But it is His will that through our faith, He will source us and connect us to our heavenly reality where we can walk in victory. Will you trust God even if He doesn't remove your thorn?


Who would blame joni if she went into deep depression and never even began this incredible minsitry we now know her for? No one. She had every reason to blame God and to give up. Is she just mentally 'tougher' than everyone else? Or is she living beyond the hand the world has dealt her? Where are her eyes fixed? (Psalms 121:1-2) (Heb. 12:2)
Prayers for you.

[PaulSacramento]

We can view this on a few different ways but in the end they do tend to lead to the same place: Belief and faith.
Christ said that with faith one could move mountains ( not concrete mountains of course) but when we pray and ask things of God ( hopefully in Christs name) how many times do we do that with FAITH AND BELIEF that it will happen? or do we do it as a sort of "test"?

IF you are God you would..."
IF you exist you would...
Heal my... and I will...
Etc, etc
All these conditions and "ifs" do NOT equal faith and belief.
Humans being what we are, tend to ask for what they want, not what they need.
God is certainly NOT under any obligation to answer any prayer and IF God chooses to answer one and not another we can't judge Him on that, we don't have the right nor the understanding.
Small comfort to the believers that pray to God to save their child, yes I grant that but we truly have NO IDEA how God works and that is why we must be faithful.
The main think most people tend to ask for in time of need is health, for themselves or others, that is the big one I would think.
But I think we also need to understand that life as we know it is not infinite and that we ALL die and we also need to understand that death to our bodies is NOT viewed the same way by God as we do it.
While it is of small or no comfort to those left behind with the loss of a loved one, it is still what it is, death is inevitable but it is NOT the end.

[mum1983]

Thank you both. You have given me some things to think about. It is hard to break the cycle of negative thinking because when something goes wrong most people do have the tendency to think "why me?" and our problems seem to overwhelm us. But I am thankful for what I have and that I have been blessed. I have already seen that the troubles I've been through have brought me closer to God. I am so much better than I was a few months ago. I have grown.

[CeT-To]

I would like to think it is God's will that I am well and happy.

May I ask, sincerely, how did you come to this conclusion?

Because if I think otherwise, than I have no hope.

Not to try and get you down by any means but this life isn't meant for happiness - we are not here for that purpose. To gain the knowledge of God and our reaction to it - is the reason why we are here. Our happiness is with God in heaven.

Matthew 5:1- 12

1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them, saying:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are those who mourn,

for they will be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek,

for they will inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

for they will be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful,

for they will be shown mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart,

for they will see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they will be called sons of God.

10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

[mum1983]

CeT-To, yet there is often a feeling in the church that those with depression are cursed somehow. I've beat myself up over this for months. Some churches even think antidepressants are tampering with God's will and people should simply read the Bible and pray more and the depression will lift. They firmly believe that God will cure them.

[CeT-To]

CeT-To, yet there is often a feeling in the church that those with depression are cursed somehow. I've beat myself up over this for months. Some churches even think antidepressants are tampering with God's will and people should simply read the Bible and pray more and the depression will lift. They firmly believe that God will cure them.

Mmmm, i could see that happening in the church. I'm sorry to hear that you've been going through a tough time I'll pray for you. I think its silly to think that antidepressants are tampering, if thats true then might as well throw out the whole hospital along with the doctors since they are also "tampering", I'd rather think that God has provided us fine doctors and people to help us, same with medicine! So the cure is actually right in front of them, God does not need to make a miracle every time he wants a person to be healed.

Btw with the comment i posted before i forgot to mention that just because it isn't our ultimate purpose to be happy here on Earth doesn't mean God can't grant you peace when he sees that it is fruitful for you to have it - likewise it could be that what you are going through right now is necessary for a greater good later in line to happen. Stay tough sister for Christ is waiting especially for you in the kingdom of heaven.

God bless!

[mum1983]

Mmmm, i could see that happening in the church. I'm sorry to hear that you've been going through a tough time I'll pray for you. I think its silly to think that antidepressants are tampering, if thats true then might as well throw out the whole hospital along with the doctors since they are also "tampering", I'd rather think that God has provided us fine doctors and people to help us, same with medicine! So the cure is actually right in front of them, God does not need to make a miracle every time he wants a person to be healed.

Yes, I feel the same way. Medicine is such a blessing to so many people and one wouldn't dream of telling a diabetic to stop taking insulin and just rely on their faith. Well at least I wouldn't dream of doing that! I guess I worry too much about what others (in the church) think and I have to start following my own instincts and work it out between myself and God.

Btw with the comment i posted before i forgot to mention that just because it isn't our ultimate purpose to be happy here on Earth doesn't mean God can't grant you peace when he sees that it is fruitful for you to have it - likewise it could be that what you are going through right now is necessary for a greater good later in line to happen. Stay tough sister for Christ is waiting especially for you in the kingdom of heaven.

Thank you.

God bless![/quote]

[jlay]

Medicines can be a wonderful thing. And they can not be. My mother is currently on diabetes medicine, blood pressure and something else. All of which could be done away with if she would exercise and push herself away from the dinner table. I don't think anyone here would suggest that all medicine is 'evil,' but I think physicians today are too quick to write a prescription. People are written anti-depresants without being diagnosed with clinical depression.

i myself was on allergy medicine and reflux medicine. I was just 20 pounds over weight. That in addition to stress headaches, ulcers and more. I'm back at 180, eat right and exercise regularly, and the medicine is not needed. Body, soul and mind work together. Mental illness can manifest physically, and physical illness can manifest mentally.

[August]

As many of you know we are dealing with this in my family. All I can say is that it takes a team effort to battle depression...family, church, therapist, school (if applicable), psychiatrist and medication. Use every tool at your disposal, or the consequences may be tragic.

[mum1983]

Medicines can be a wonderful thing. And they can not be. My mother is currently on diabetes medicine, blood pressure and something else. All of which could be done away with if she would exercise and push herself away from the dinner table. I don't think anyone here would suggest that all medicine is 'evil,' but I think physicians today are too quick to write a prescription. People are written anti-depresants without being diagnosed with clinical depression.

i myself was on allergy medicine and reflux medicine. I was just 20 pounds over weight. That in addition to stress headaches, ulcers and more. I'm back at 180, eat right and exercise regularly, and the medicine is not needed. Body, soul and mind work together. Mental illness can manifest physically, and physical illness can manifest mentally.

Unfortunately not everyone has the strength (mental or physical) to live the ideal lifestyle, as much as they would like to. Congratulations to you for overcoming your conditions and doing away with medicine. Unfortunately, many people who have overcome their conditions, whether it's by losing weight, or other lifestyle changes often become complacent and forget just how hard things were "way back when." They lose compassion for others suffering from their old conditions. I saw it myself when my aunt who lost over 200 lbs after having a gastric bypass was ridiculing her own daughter for being "fat." Why can't your mother push herself away from the dinner table? Have you offered to go exercising with her?