by RickD on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:39 pm
Predestination = God wants me to go to McDonald, it is predestined, it can not be changed. This now involves God's will and intent. He wants it done. In both cases God knows before hand, but in the latter, God wills it, it is he who designed it and my choice simply does not count.
Predestination= God knows I'll go to McDonalds, it's predestined, it cannot be changed. Since God knows that I will be at McDonalds at 5:09 pm, then that cannot change. It was my choice to go there at that time. And God knew that. And since God knew that, it cannot change. Before you say, "what if I changed my mind, and went to Burger King, instead?". Well, then that would be predestined, because God would also know you were going to change your mind. You can't pull a fast one on God. Besides, McDonalds menu is a much better value than BK.
No, Rick. You completely missed my point. when I say predestination, I mean, plans hard set in concrete, can not change, whatsoever, designed by God, not by our will. That would be just knowledge to God, if he knows what we will do. But predestined events are bound to happen, anyway.
That is the difference here, predestination is, God willed something to happen, he just didn't know it. He wanted it.
Was the lamb of God, who was slain before the foundations of the earth were ever laid down, slain because God saw in the future and saw that he will be accepted by 12 apostles, just that, nothing else. This is just info, not predestination, Rick. This is God's redemptive plan, regardless of human will. Did man ever willed God to send his son? No. This was initiated by God, totally independent of human choices.
I am talking about predestination apart from our choices. what about prophecies which are hard set. I am not talking about predestination of our actions. choice and predestination doesn't coincide. You are looking at it from the opposite side. You are tracing predestination, from your action and backwards. I am not saying this at all.
Predestination can exist without human will and intent.
btw. simply put, these are two different things, if something is predestined, it is predestined, your choice or my choice does not matter at all. Was Jesus predestined to be born? according to your definition, its because God saw Mary in the future saying yes to the angel, that's it. This just a result of the plan that God started, not the cause of God's plan, his will and intent. God''s big plans are not set by looking into the future at human responses. His plans are not our plans, rick. Jesus would be born, whether someone wanted it or not. so the prophecies could be fulfilled.
Predestination implies God's will, as in prophecies. For example, what you are saying can be perused to really absurd conclusions. For example, was the Holocaust predestined?
You can say it was, based on Hitler's decision which God knew. Technically it would be just omniscience to God, not predestination. predestination would mean, God designed Hitler to be like this and so he went and ultimately God was responsible for the Holocaust. So the definition of predestination you are using is not whole, as I showed you above. Predestination is bigger then our choices, Rick. or else what is predestination if it is not designed by God.
Besides, McDonalds menu is a much better value than BK.
I agree with you on this.
