Homosexuality - Genetic OR Behavioral?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Wed May 11, 2005 7:44 pm

On top of what jerickson said, the article you quoted writes: "The brains of homosexual men respond more like those of women when reacting to a chemical derived from the male sex hormone, new evidence of physical differences related to sexual orientation."

Despite the almost circular nature to this reasoning, it is one of the most unthought out blanket statements I've heard. Define how the brains of "men" or "women" are meant to respond and how they are different? There is a whole field in philosophy dedicated to identity which deals with such issues. Is there any one trait that makes a man more of a man, or a woman more of a woman? Many stereotypes, and perhaps the majority of one sex share more of the same traits... but are men who are more kind than others therefore more womanly? At the same time I've known some mean women, so does that mean they are more manly?

In summary, there is no way someone can say homosexual men respond more like women unless it is known what characteristics represent a woman and what ones represent a man. Over this there is much debate, so it is unreasonable for the author of the article to assume they know what the characteristics are without providing any basis.

Kurieuo.

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Tue May 17, 2005 11:10 pm

I agree that whether it's behavioral or genetic is irrelevant. Alcoholism has a genetic basis in some people, but that doesn't make it an okay lifestyle choice. Other harmful behaviors, as mentioned above, also have ties to genetics, and it doesn't justify them either.

If I had to choose one, though, I'd say it's behavioral. From my personal experience, I was never accepted much by males my own age. I didn't like the stereotypical stuff like sports, though I did like video games and action figures. It wasn't enough to keep me from being teased and having a hard time making male friends. Also, my dad always tried to push me to be more outdoorsy and to join in sports, even though I didn't like them. I know he loves me, but...at an early age like that, it's kind of tough on you thinking that your dad wants you to like stuff that you just don't care for, and not really knowing why it's so important to him.

I can remember homosexual desires of some sort as early as age 6. I mean, at that age it was just curiosity, but for some reason my curiosity tended to be more about other boys than about girls. And around age 11, the hormones hit, and my first sexual desires were for other guys, and I didn't know why. I do remember that the more other guys shunned me(for other reasons -- I never, ever let anyone know I had homosexual thoughts), the stronger the desires got.

It got really bad for a while, and I did some things I'm not proud of. At the time, of course, I didn't feel guilty at all. I thought it was just a lifestyle, that it wasn't a choice, that it was okay.

Of course, that's over now. I accepted Christ last July, and the desire went down quite a bit, and I sort of "normalized" as far as sexual desire goes. I now have quite a few close guy friends, and I react much better when I am rejected. The closer I draw to Christ, and the more my relationship with Him grows, the more those old desires just seem to melt away. I can now look forward to having a wife and children and all that stuff. And no, the thought of having sex with a woman doesn't disgust me anymore, like it did for a while. I try not to think of it, though, 'cuz dwelling on lustful things like that is just disrespectful.

Don't let anyone fool you -- you can not experience any kind of true freedom while in bondage to homosexuality. It just can't be. Prominent pro-homosexual arguments go like this:

"I can't be happy without homosexuality."
"Would you want me to live a lifetime of misery?"
"Why can't I be free to have sex the way I want?"

Since coming to Christ, I've formulated a few responses of my own.

"Why do you need sex at all to live a fulfilled life? And why does it have to be homosexual sex?"
"Why would you be miserable if you chose to not act on your homosexual desires?"
"Is it the only thing you have in your life? Do you not have friends? Hobbies? Pets?"
"How 'free' can you truly be if your sexual desires are in control of you, and not the other way around?"

Of course, the above arguments can also be applied to other forms of sexual addiction, as well as many other sins we give control of our life to. I now experience a new freedom I never knew before. I am in control of my sexual desires, and it's great.

If I never have sex, I will still be able to be happy and live a fulfilled life.
If I never get married, I will still be able to be happy and live a fulfilled life.

My happiness and fulfillment are no longer tied to what I can and cannot do. Now <B>that</B> is true freedom.

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:50 pm

The particular article mentioned earlier is professionally refuted here.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:45 pm

LittleShepherd wrote:My happiness and fulfillment are no longer tied to what I can and cannot do. Now that is true freedom.

Amen!

I truly believe that I have the ability to commit and enjoy any kind of sin if the right circumstances influenced me, (yes, any.) That is because I can more fully see my sinful nature for what it is, and God has shown me just what's inside of me. Our sinful natures are truly hideous. But God keeps things under control enough for me so that a lot of the things I know I'd be capable of wouldn't ever be a real issue. This is unmerited grace and mercy.

Through learning of my utterly filthy sinful nature I can so much more easily understand others with sin problems instead of just condeming them for it like I used to do for every flaw anyone would have. As you can tell, I needed that revelation very bad! I'm still pretty judgemental, but God's slowly grinding it out of me. I thoroughly believe that if we only knew our sinful natures well enough we'd all see that everyone of us is capable of enjoying any and every sin. Thank God for grace and mercy and our new divine natures!

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:52 pm

kateliz wrote:Through learning of my utterly filthy sinful nature I can so much more easily understand others with sin problems instead of just condeming them for it like I used to do for every flaw anyone would have. As you can tell, I needed that revelation very bad! I'm still pretty judgemental, but God's slowly grinding it out of me. I thoroughly believe that if we only knew our sinful natures well enough we'd all see that everyone of us is capable of enjoying any and every sin. Thank God for grace and mercy and our new divine natures!

That's a good mentality. I mean, we all, to use a common colloquialism, abjectly suck. We have no right to condemn others, only sins.

'Sides, God's job of judging people seems tough enough. I'm too lazy to try it.

However, what do you mean "we can enjoy every sin"?

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:17 pm

You misquote me and so make a problem out of nothing. I didn't say "we can enjoy every sin," I said, "every one of us is capable of enjoying any and every sin." God has to bring us to that revelation- we don't see it on our own.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:23 pm

kateliz wrote:You misquote me and so make a problem out of nothing.

Yipes! Sorry, ma'am.

I didn't say "we can enjoy every sin," I said, "every one of us is capable of enjoying any and every sin." God has to bring us to that revelation- we don't see it on our own.

Thank you for clarifying. However, I'm still very confused by what you mean.

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:22 am

She's saying we all have the potential within us, via our sinful nature, to commit all sorts of atrocities(and to <B>enjoy</B> it). Various things tend to keep us in check, but the potential is still there.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:30 am

Exactly. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

No Forge, you're not forgiven.

(Look, I'm cool just like you! Sunglasses are it man! Dey da bomb!) (Yes I'm joking with you; no I'm not making fun of you. Although I am having fun at your expense.

)

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:27 pm

kateliz wrote:No Forge, you're not forgiven. (Look, I'm cool just like you! Sunglasses are it man! Dey da bomb!) (Yes I'm joking with you; no I'm not making fun of you. Although I am having fun at your expense. )

Damnation. I'll just go off and hang myself now. Don't worry, my thick skin is very impervious.

Thanks, Shepherd, for the clarification.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:58 am

Sorry Forge, but it's probably not a good idea to speak lightly of suicide on this forum. People here have expressed current struggles with it.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:24 am

My apologies.

As I said, my sense of humor is twisted at best. I guess I have to learn the "feel" of this board more, then.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sun May 29, 2005 6:51 pm

voicingmaster wrote:
Being a serial killer is a lifestyle choice too, should we smile at them and tell them they made a good choice? And they do cause harm, whether or not you and they notice it or not.

Exactly. They don't have to be homosexual, but they choose to be. Don't expect the public to fully embrace it.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Mon May 30, 2005 11:49 am

Just to clarify:

When you say "homosexual" do you mean the people who are attracted to those of the same sex, or those who indulge in homosexual activity?

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Mon May 30, 2005 1:34 pm

Forge wrote:Just to clarify:

When you say "homosexual" do you mean the people who are attracted to those of the same sex, or those who indulge in homosexual activity?

The dictionary defines it as either. Homosexuals can quash their desires in order to become straight, but it seems as if most choose not to do that.