The moral fabric of God

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:35 am

There are a lot of points I feel like I need to answer that you have raised, since my last message, though I would prefer to concentrate on this:

If evil is the absence of god, does that then mean that anyone who does not believe in the Christian god is evil? Because I can certainly say that is wrong, as there are many people who do not believe in Christianity and are more "good" than many Christians.

CountryBoy · Post by **CountryBoy** » Fri May 13, 2005 12:07 pm

I guess that depends on where your 'evil' or 'good' measuring stick comes from right?

I personally know many Christians that I would say don't live lives that are as moral as some people I know that are not Christian. And I'm sure that some people feel that way about my life at times because of my behavior.

But the way we live our lives is not necessarily an indication of our belief system...we are beings who are basically hell bent on doing our own will instead of God's Holy will (that's evil). And the only reason God would even consider allowing us into His presence in by us accepting the sacrifice of His Son Jesus, on the cross.

You said

If evil is the absence of god, does that then mean that anyone who does not believe in the Christian god is evil? Because I can certainly say that is wrong, as there are many people who do not believe in Christianity and are more "good" than many Christians.

So, to answer your question, yes, anyone who doesn't believe in the Christian God is evil, but then, so are those of us who do believe in Him, we are just trusting in the Holiness of Jesus to get us into heaven.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:04 pm

So your saying from what God says:

that if some evil son of a ***** goes and kills a whole village with a shot gun, but is a Christian and believes Jesus died on the Cross, he is good compared to a normal person who lives a good honest life?

Do you know that makes the Christian belief system look.....heck, evil itself?[/u]

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:23 pm

Essedarius wrote:that if some evil son of a ***** goes and kills a whole village with a shot gun, but is a Christian and believes Jesus died on the Cross, he is good compared to a normal person who lives a good honest life?

Not good, just forgiven. And I would question whether this person really was a Christian, unless he became a Christian after the event. Being a Christian means more than intellectual assent to the truth of the Bible, it actually requires genuine acceptance. Someone who accepts Christianity is unlikely to go kill an entire village.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 14, 2005 3:37 pm

But you can agree they are both looked upon as as good as each other then?

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:15 pm

Essedarius wrote:But you can agree they are both looked upon as as good as each other then?

Romans 3:12b (WEB) wrote:There is no one who does good,
No, not, so much as one.

Everybody is evil; that's why everyone would go to hell if it wasn't for Christ's salvation. Nonetheless, the killer would be in greater need of redemption and more deserving of justice. So in a sense the other person would be more "good".

And yes, everybody includes me.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:42 pm

Essedarius wrote:So your saying from what God says:

that if some evil son of a ***** goes and kills a whole village with a shot gun, but is a Christian and believes Jesus died on the Cross, he is good compared to a normal person who lives a good honest life?

Do you know that makes the Christian belief system look.....heck, evil itself?

Disregarding the strawman you made, it is amusing to see the irony in your attempt to discredit morality within Christianity by borrowing theistic terminology such as "evil." Nevermind that without an objective moral standard as Christianity advocates by way of morality being rooted in God, that there is nothing really "evil" or "wrong" with shooting other people.

And nevermind that if the physical, material world is all that exists, then all our actions are determined by the natural laws governing molecules and chemical reactions. Thus, there is nothing wrong or evil with someone shooting other people, anymore than there is something wrong or evil with a rock that breaks which was flung through the air. Both are only following what has been determined by natural laws and processes. Now don't you know that makes a godless system look.....heck, just a little absurd?

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat May 14, 2005 11:02 pm

Essedarius wrote:My stance is that he is infinitely good and infinitely evil and he will not be biased to one nor the other -OR- he is not infinite.

Let's say God is infinitely good. Does this not mean God is in some way infinite? Therefore you admit in your own conclusion that God can be infinite without being infinitely evil. The question therefore comes down to what one means by infinite, and I find your unsupported idea of the "infinite" uncompelling.

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:32 am

God lives on plains where good and evil dont even exist, or are pointless to define.

If God created the whole universe, why would he be biased to "good"? It doesn't make sense, as he is far above our silly human matters. Why don't you think about this yourselves?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sun May 15, 2005 5:42 am

Essedarius wrote:God lives on plains where good and evil dont even exist, or are pointless to define.

If God created the whole universe, why would he be biased to "good"? It doesn't make sense, as he is far above our silly human matters. Why don't you think about this yourselves?

No.

God is the embodiment of all good, He is the source of all Holiness, He didn't 'live' on these plains that you can't back up except with your own beliefs. He was all that existed, and He is pure goodness. You're making countless assumptions about God that aren't true, you create a strawman.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun May 15, 2005 7:31 am

It is logical to assume there are a variety of other intelligent species all around the universe, because it is so massive.

Do you think that God fits this "good" thing into species that cannot possibly live by it?

CountryBoy · Post by **CountryBoy** » Sun May 15, 2005 4:01 pm

Do you think that God fits this "good" thing into species that cannot possibly live by it?

So, you think that humans are ill-equipped to live by God's rules, huh? Well, that's pretty much what His word teaches isn't it? His Son (God in a Human shell) lived by those rules, but try as I may, I stumble quite a bit. But even if I could live what I might call a sinless life, I couldn't do it without having a relationship with Jesus. So, what I might would call the perfect, sinless life, if it were lived without a relationship with Jesus, would still end me up in eternity anguishing without God.

According to the Christian God's word (the Bible), for me to live without a relationship with Jesus is for me to be constantly pushing God's Holy Spirit away from myself. Because the Bible says God's very Spirit is standing there knocking, trying to break through my barriers of pride, lust, greed, anger, education...whatever it may be that that is currently keeping me from that relationship with The Devine Being of the universe.

I have to keep taking you back to the fact that God made us with a freedom to choose (free will), and His Holy Spirit constantly tugs at our hearts letting us know what to choose. So, although He knows we cannot possibly live a holy enough life to be fit to spend eternity with Him, a completely Holy and Devine being, creator of everything. And He knows that we are deserving of punishment, all of us, He still loved us enough to come down to earth in a Human Shell and provide the ultimate sacrifice, His (God's) life for our life. But even after dieing for our sins (it's amazing isn't it, the God who created a zillion galaxies, died for my sins), He didn't stop there. He's now tickling our spirits, leading us to a relationship with Him. He has put it in our hearts and brains and we know what to believe, but some of us continue to push Him away (I'd say it was a pride thing for me) until that last curtain call, when our free will to choose Him runs out and our choice of 'Not choosing Him' becomes written in stone.

So anyway, it just makes perfect sense to me and all other life views sound like they are coming out of left field.
So really, there is no excuse for not choosing God, He personally keeps asking you to believe.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon May 16, 2005 3:35 pm

I think your argument is nonsense. God is described as good and holy, and to be evil would go against his nature. In essence, God can destroy God.

CountryBoy · Post by **CountryBoy** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:44 pm

[/quote]In essence, God can destroy God.[quote]

Mark 3 23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Your're right Kmart, that's the same tired old argument the Pharasees (somebody) tried to lay on Jesus. Things don't change much at all do they?

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon May 16, 2005 8:36 pm

The same stupid arguments are used because they're the best ones they've got.

Evidence for God from Science

The moral fabric of God

Re: The moral fabric of God