Evil and free will

[wynand.be]

Hallo to All.

I used to believe that humans have free will to decide their own fate. Until I had a closer look at God's Word and even just the definition of 'free will' in the Merriam Webster's Dictionary.
Let us first look at the dictionary:
free will n (13c)
freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.
Can we make decisions without being caused to decide something or without Godly influence? Can you think about things you never heard of or do not know anything about? I know I can not think about economical terms because I have never studied economy and don't have a clue about it.
Humans definitely have a will and we make 1000's of decisions each day, but are they not all caused by something; the way we were raised, current emotions, our beliefs in what is right and wrong, etc? In order to have free will, we must have free thought, and that does not exist. I don't think that people thought about fire until they were exposed to it.
Now, let's look at scriptures that can also answer this 'free will' issue.
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard its spots? Then you also may do good, who are accustomed to doing evil.
Can this happen? Can we change our skin color or a leopard change his spots? No, it can not. So, we humans can not stop sinning and start doing good out of our own strength or 'free will'. We need Divine intervention to change. Who gets the glory? Us humans who 'freely' decide to follow God, OR God who chooses us through grace?
Another scripture:
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
God has predestined us to perform His purposes. Everything God does is for a purpose and always motivated by love. Here we clearly see that God works ALL things according to the counsel of HIS WILL. Not us. We don't know what is going to happen the next second, but God declares the end from the beginning. We know nothing, God knows everything.
For more on this, read Rom 9. Read it and believe in God's Word.

Now, let us move on to why there is evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I bet some of you never heard of this scripture before! This blew me away and freaked my wife out completely. When I read this to her, she was angry with me for the whole night!
But once we accepted it and started realizing the meaning of it, we were set free from many burdens.
We live in God's universe where almighty God is in control. Everything He does, He does for a purpose, motivated by love. We do not always understand His purposes (most of the time we don't), and if we can really trust God, we don't have to understand everything. We live by faith (in God and in knowing who God is) and not by sight.
Evil was created for a purpose. God sometimes uses evil to achieve His purposes (1 Ki 22:19-23, Book of Job, etc). Evil and suffering are temporary and will come to an end. (Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.)
Let's learn from Job's experience and never question God's knowledge, ability and power. (And if we do, I am sure God already knew that you would and He will not take offense about it.) Let's rather just read God's word and believe.

All glory to God forever. Amen.

[ghasan]

Are you satisfied with any of the answers to your questions? I read most of them and no one made a complete and concrete case. Twenty years ago I have raised the same questions nobody gave me real answers that can stop me from going back and forth until something happened in my life. It made me think in different way and take a second look to all things that I considered as facts. And here is what happened to me which can be considered as a joke too. I was 27 years old. I was having lunch on a lunch break with my coworker. He was pealing a banana from the end and not from the handle where it is attached to the rest of the bananas where I used to peal it from. And I asked myself why I never tried to do it his way? When I tried I found it much easier. I took the same concept and applied to all issues of my life and I found completely new answers. One of which was the same you are seeking now. And the answer I found is much simpler than anybody might think. It is equivalent to the discovery of gravity by Newton. And this answer will tip all religious institutions on its head.
Let us get to the point. I will give the answer at the end but I have to walk you to it. Lit us assume fist for the purpose of the discussion that the computer we have today including the internet and all other inventions that depends on the high computing power of integrated circuits is due to one person let us name him Mr. X . I think that Mr. X should receive the highest and best prize ever existed. I think everyone will agree with me since the computer and IC's made so much positive change in our lives. But with all this computing power everything and every possible result is predictable some way or another by Mr. X. Now Mr. Y few years later came up with new computing device that can compute things just like Mr. X's computing devise plus it can reach new unpredictable results but at the same time Mr. Y has the ability to follow up with his device processing of information instantly and he can manipulate the results if he chooses to. Now the real question is who deserve the best prize Mr. X or Mr. Y. I personally think Mr. Y should. And he is my god. Who has created me and he gave me the power to do things that he did not know about previously. He knows my thinking instantly and he can change it and manipulate it if he wants to. But if he does intervene in one choice he will not punish nither reward me for it or for any other consequences as a direct result to that choice. The confusion comes to people from the fact that they all assume that for god to be perfect he has to know the future. Even this is true regarding some events where nobody will be held accountable for. It is not true regarding the free will circle of events for each individual separately and independently. And finally here is the simple answer god is Y not X and to me Y is more perfect than X.
Now a lot more questions follow. I have so many of them and I answered all of them. The best answer I came up with is that common since has no religion.

[zoegirl]

[B. W.]

Ditto

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[August]

Phew, I thought it was just me not making out head or tail of that.

[cslewislover]

Well if Y is your God, who is not the creator, who is X, the creator?

[ghasan]

Well if Y is your God, who is not the creator, who is X, the creator?

The Y-X analogy is just an example to make the issue easier to understand. Y is a creator and X is a creator as will and I love both of them but Y is my favorite because he gave me something that X did not. That is the ability to choose without pre knowledge of him to which way my choice would be. Also he gave me the authority to control other creatures like animals, air and water …etc through my actions. In this sense of understanding life goes on by two wills god's will and human's will (if you believe in satin you can add his will too). Every choice any one on earth takes, god is here watching it and constantly adjusting things, events and behaviors (if he chose to) for life to go on the way he outlined. By this definition of god (the perfect) one can conclude many other ideas, rules, morals, and theories. I might mention some of these on the future.

[cslewislover]

Well, you say there's God's will and our will, but then you say there are two creators. So that's confusing. Since there are two creators, wouldn't there be two God's, each with their own will?

[ghasan]

Y and X represent two different views in the way people like to understand how god creates and judges. X and Y are not two separate beings but two descriptions for the same being by two different people. So obviously you can't believe in both at the same time. I chose Y-description.

[cslewislover]

Y and X represent two different views in the way people like to understand how god creates and judges. X and Y are not two separate beings but two descriptions for the same being by two different people. So obviously you can't believe in both at the same time. I chose Y-description.

Oh, ok. So in your earlier post you claim that he gave you power to manipulate air and water. Can you talk of that more.

[ghasan]

I didn't mean it like I am (in person like superman) I meant like human beings god gave us the power to affect and control other things. Like through our using of oil we can affect the environment. Or as a simpler example if someone walk to a water well to drink he should not pollute it after he is done because others, and may be himself will drink from it again. We are in charge of this plant to a great deal.

[Christian7]

I didn't mean it like I am (in person like superman) I meant like human beings god gave us the power to affect and control other things. Like through our using of oil we can affect the environment. Or as a simpler example if someone walk to a water well to drink he should not pollute it after he is done because others, and may be himself will drink from it again. We are in charge of this plant to a great deal.

Our intentions can be recorded as information on this molecules of water. Our own electronic equipment can be affected by own own though-waves. There are laws in the universe that we can use to our advantage such as the Law of Attraction. Praying gives results in our lives. We are creating our reality with every waking moment. Our perceptions about ourselves and others is sent out from our thoughtful minds into our enviornment and we belief what we see. This is not a real world. What you see may not even be.

[top5pin]

If the bad things that happen are all attributable to free will, then how will heaven work?

Heaven is supposed to be a paradise without pain suffering or evil, but since we've already established that all of those things arise from the gift of free will, how can we possibly have free will in heaven?

It doesn't matter how high a 'caliber' of person that you let in to heaven. If you give people free will, bad things will happen. Therefore if heaven is true; free will must be precluded. There is no other conclusion.

If there is some other method of creating the perfect 'world' without the removal of free will, why hasn't God done that already on earth?

[top5pin]

If the bad things that happen are all attributable to free will, then how will heaven work?

Heaven is supposed to be a paradise without pain suffering or evil, but since we've already established that all of those things arise from the gift of free will, how can we possibly have free will in heaven?

It doesn't matter how high a 'caliber' of person that you let in to heaven. If you give people free will, bad things will happen. Therefore if heaven is true; free will must be precluded. There is no other conclusion.

If there is some other method of creating the perfect 'world' without the removal of free will, why hasn't God done that already on earth?

[jlay]

If the bad things that happen are all attributable to free will, then how will heaven work?

Heaven is supposed to be a paradise without pain suffering or evil, but since we've already established that all of those things arise from the gift of free will, how can we possibly have free will in heaven?

It doesn't matter how high a 'caliber' of person that you let in to heaven. If you give people free will, bad things will happen. Therefore if heaven is true; free will must be precluded. There is no other conclusion.

If there is some other method of creating the perfect 'world' without the removal of free will, why hasn't God done that already on earth?

I think this fails to understand redemption, and the essence of sin. I agree, if you give people free will bad things will happen. But it seems you are assuming heaven will just be a better version of earth, with some higher caliber people. It isn't. The Bible gives us some insight, although I'm not sure we can ever fully grasp. But it says we will be 'made' like Him. (Christ) Once a person is a believer they have a new positional identity. They also, while still on earth, have a practical reality. The positional identity is righteousness and perfection. The practicial reality is that we still carry around these death suits. (bodies)
You make a wrong assumption about the 'caliber' of person. This assumes that we will enter glory just like we are, except with better clothes and hair. The reality is we enter completely new.
Can all bad things be attributed to free will?