God hates / is jealous?

[JBirdAngel]

it seems there are several verses in the Bible that use the word hate when not really meaning hate... and i am confused by this, i may have the names wrong in this but i believe God said that he loves Jacob and hates Esau or something like that, in my study Bible it said that this didnt mean he actually hated Esau, just htat he chose Jacob to be the one who carried God's line or something like that...

also then there is the verse in Luke where Jesus says that in order to be his disciple one must hate their wife and family and all of this, which goes against Jesus' teachings to love everyone, my Bible's explain this to mean that Jesus must be put first, nto that you are actually supposed to hate your family and loved ones, just that no matter what Jesus comes first... but if that is the case why is the word hate used in both of these instances? hate is a strong word and doesnt really mean what both of these are suggesting they mean, is this something to do with the translation? and if so would it really be wrong to translate it in a way that fits better with teh true meaning? i dont understand this, or why God calls himself a jealous God, another hting that doesnt usually equal goodness....

[Dan]

Weird, in those passages my Bible doesn't use the word hate. The only time I see God hating something is when the bible speaks of sin and punishment (God doesn't enjoy punishing people, I have to dig that passage up sometime).

God is jealous for our own good, He doesn't want us worshipping other gods because they lead us on the wrong path, ultimately to our own suffering.

[JBirdAngel]

the title was supposed to be God hates, not Got... sorry

and what version is your Bible/or what does it say? and also i dont understand the use of the word jealous though... i dont understand the use of words that one normally things of as sinful or bad as being given as traits or however it works to God??

[Dan]

the title was supposed to be God hates, not Got... sorry

and what version is your Bible/or what does it say? and also i dont understand the use of the word jealous though... i dont understand the use of words that one normally things of as sinful or bad as being given as traits or however it works to God??

Jealousy is regarded as bad in our society, but there are more appropriate words for certain situations of what we call jelousy. These words are envy and coveting. Jealousy is what drives a wife or husband to guard their bond with their spouse when they sense that bond is in danger. For example, if the spouse is flirting. Coveting and envy is wanting something that someone else has. The type of jealousy God has when we turn our backs on Him is the kind that saves us from our own poor judgement. It is not the kind of sinful behavior people associate with the word.

[Kurieuo]

Rather than recycle the wheel in my own way, here is an indepth response on God being jealous as found at A Christian Thinktank:

Jealousy is certainly an "odd" word to use of God--especially as a self-description (Ex 20.5; Dt 5.9)-- since this word is generally used negatively in today's culture and modern parlance.

1. "Jealousy" (in the biblical sense) is essentially a passionate commitment to someone, and their well-being:
<ul><li>"The principal OT term rendered as jealousy in the English Bible is qina from the verb qanna, root meaning 'become dark red' (Nu. 5:14; Pr. 6:34; Ezk. 16:42; etc.). The normal lxx translation of qina and its cognates is zeloo or the cognate parazeloo (Dt. 32:21; cf. Rom. 10:19), and these are the principal terms used in the NT (Acts 7:9; Rom. 11:11; 1 Cor. 10:22; 13:4). Both Heb. and Gk. words refer to an exclusive single-mindedness of emotion which may be morally blameworthy or praiseworthy depending on whether the object of the jealousy is the self or some cause beyond the self. In the former case the result is envy, or hatred of others (Gn. 30:1; Pr. 3:31; Ezk. 31:9), which for the NT is the antithesis of love and hence the enemy of true Christian fellowship (1 Cor. 13:4; 2 Cor. 12:20; Jas. 3:14). The Bible however also represents the other possibility, of a 'divine jealousy' (2 Cor. 11:2), a consuming single-minded pursuit of a good end (1 Ki. 19:10; Ex. 20:5; 1 Cor. 12:31). This positive usage is frequently associated with the marriage relationship where a jealousy for the exclusiveness of the relationship is the necessary condition of its permanence (Nu. 5:11ff.; Ezk. 16:38; 2 Cor. 11:2). [New Bible Dictionary, s.v. "Jealousy"] </li>
<li>"The adjective "jealous" (qanno; cf. TWOT, 2:802-3) is used solely of God, primarily in his self-revelation at Sinai (Exod 20:5; 34:14). Against this covenantal background it denotes the Lord's deep, indeed, fiercely protective commitment to his people and his exclusive claim to obedience and reciprocal commitment (cf. Deut 4:24; 5:9). Where this relationship of mutual commitment is threatened, either by Israel's unfaithfulness or by foreign oppression, the inevitable expressions of such jealousy are "vengeance" and "wrath," directed to restoring that relationship (e.g., Num 25:11; Heb 10:27). [EBCOT, @Nah 1]</li></ul>
2. It can be morally good or morally bad, depending on the motive behind the zeal:
<blockquote>"Both Heb. and Gk. words refer to an exclusive single-mindedness of emotion which may be morally blameworthy or praiseworthy depending on whether the object of the jealousy is the self or some cause beyond the self." [New Bible Dict.]

"God is often presented as a jealous God in the OT (Num 25:11; Deut 6:15; Isa 59:17; Ezek 5:13; 38:18—19). Jealousy in essence is an intolerance of rivals. It can be a virtue or a sin depending on the legitimacy of the rival. God would allow no rivals in the covenant between him and Israel. He bound Israel exclusively to his service and he swore to protect her against all enemies. [WBC, @Nahum 1]

"The term may be used in a purely descriptive sense to denote one of the characteristics of living men (Eccl 9:6), or in a derogatory sense to denote hostile and disruptive passions (Prov 27:4) or in a favorable sense to denote consuming zeal focused on one that is loved (Ps 69:9 [H 10]). [TWOT, s.v. "qana"]</blockquote>
3. It is important to note that divine jealousy is part of the 'fire' that is ardent love. In the Song of Solomon, for example, the Beloved desires to be the cause of such jealous zeal:
<blockquote>Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. 7 Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot wash it away. If one were to give all the wealth of his house for love, it would be utterly scorned. (So 8.6f)</blockquote>
The Bible Expositor's Commentary described this:
<blockquote>"In Old Testament times a seal was used to indicate ownership of a person's valued possessions. So the beloved asked to be her lover's most valued possession, a possession that would influence his thoughts (over your heart) and his actions (over your arm). Such a demanding request required the explanation which she gave in verses 6b-7a.

"8:6b-7a. These verses sum up the nature and power of the love depicted in the Song. It is as universal and irresistible as death, exclusive and possessive (in the sense of being genuinely concerned for the one loved) as the grave, passionate (as blazing fire) and as invincible and persevering as many waters and rivers. And all this is true because love is supported by the Creator who possesses all power. The words like a mighty flame are, literally, “like the very flame of the Lord” (cf. niv marg.). Thus the Lord is portrayed as the Source of this powerful love.

"8:7b. The final statement about the love depicted in the Song is that it is priceless. All one's wealth would be totally inadequate to purchase such love. In fact such money would be . . . scorned, because love cannot be bought. Any attempt to “buy” love depersonalizes it. If love is priceless, how then can it be obtained? The answer is that it must be given. And ultimately love is a gift from God.</blockquote>
This is a beautiful picture of the love that God has for His companions, and puts 'jealously' into an entirely different light. It is not 'insecurity' or 'self-interest', but rather a powerful emotion in support of loyalty and intimacy.

4. We often fail to appreciate the intensity of this yearning of God's heart for us, but the OT prophets understood. Hosea gives us a disturbing look at the inside of the heart of God:
<blockquote>"But, besides using the picture of marriage, Hosea also used the picture of a father to describe Yahweh's unfathomable love for Israel, whom he loved in Egypt and drew to himself with bonds of love (11:1 ff.). Israel, however, turned away. So Hosea pictured the struggle, which he saw as going on inside Yahweh himself, as that between the jealous wrath of a deceived father and his glowing love: "How can I give you up, O Ephraim! How can I hand you over, O Israel? . . . My heart recoils within me, my compassion grows warm and tender. I will not execute my fierce anger, I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come to destroy" (11:8 f.). This description by Hosea of the passionate and zealous love of God is unprecedented in its boldness. For, according to Hosea, the God-ness of God does not express itself in destructive power, but in tender and compassionate love, which precedes any responsive human love, and which suffers through the faithlessness of his people (6:4) and does not hand them over to ultimate ruin. [NIDNTT, s.v. "love"]</blockquote>
5. Too often our English language makes "jealous OF" the default meaning for "jealousy"--instead of the biblical "jealous FOR". The "jealous OF" meaning is tantamount to envy and is NEVER ascribed to God. The "jealous FOR" (which seems odd to us users of modern parlance) is essentially the same in meaning as "zealous for protecting/maintaining our enjoyable and fruitful relationship of intimacy". The "jealous FOR" (in the context of His love for His people) usage is the one used predominantly of God:
<blockquote>Then the LORD will be jealous for his land and take pity on his people. 19 The LORD will reply to them: 'I am sending you grain, new wine and oil, enough to satisfy you fully; never again will I make you an object of scorn to the nations. (Joel 2.18, notice the link between jealousy and pity)

Then the angel who was speaking to me said, “Proclaim this word: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I am very jealous for Jerusalem and Zion, 15 but I am very angry with the nations that feel secure. I was only a little angry, but they added to the calamity.' 16 “Therefore, this is what the LORD says: 'I will return to Jerusalem with mercy, and there my house will be rebuilt. And the measuring line will be stretched out over Jerusalem,' declares the LORD Almighty. 17 “Proclaim further: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'My towns will again overflow with prosperity, and the LORD will again comfort Zion and choose Jerusalem.'” (Zech 1.14, note also the contrast between "very jealous" and "very angry" and that it is aimed at mercy and blessing for His people)

Again the word of the LORD Almighty came to me. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her.” 3 This is what the LORD says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain.” 4 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with cane in hand because of his age. 5 The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there.” (Zech 8.1, note that this jealousy produces closeness with God and benefits for His people)</blockquote>
Notice how different this meaning of 'jealousy' is from our modern, negative sense. This is a beautiful, passionate commitment to someone, not a petty, insecure, suspicious outrage.

[There is a distinct possibility that the translation "jealous" for the OT words should be dropped altogether, since the senses are semantically so far apart now: "More frequent are the passages that speak of God's zeal, when it means the intensity, the uncompromising involvement with which God deals with men. Some ETs have retained the possibly misleading rendering 'jealous'" (NIDNTT, s.v. "zeal")]

5. The NT Greek word for this is a somewhat ambiguous word zeloo (although this gets to the heart of the passion/energy in this concept). In Classical Greek, it could be positive or negative, depending on the goals:

"Zelos (from the Attic tragedians on) has zeal as its underlying idea, and means an emotional going out to a person, idea or cause. There are two clear meanings depending on the object of the zeal. Where the goal is good, zelos means eager striving, competition, enthusiasm, admiration, and in suitable contexts praise, glory. In a bad sense, the zeal has had a wrong goal and has become a defect; it then means jealousy, ill-will, envy. Accordingly, zelotes, zealot, can mean one seeking to reach good goals or a jealous man, an envious man. Equally, according to the context, the vb. zeloo can mean be zealous, consider fortunate, strive after or envy, be jealous." [NIDNTT, s.v. "zeal"]</blockquote>
And both senses appear in the NT:
<blockquote>"Both the good and bad senses of the word group are found in the NT. The bad sense of jealousy is found in Acts 7:9 (of Joseph's brothers); 5:17; 13:45; 17:5 (of the Jews' jealousy of the apostles' success, though the concept of zeal for God may be dimly perceived). Jealousy and strife are a deadly danger to the continued existence of a church (Jas. 3:16; cf. v. 14, 1 Cor. 3:3; 2 Cor. 12:20). A Christian must not show jealousy but is to walk by the Spirit (Gal. 5:16, 20) and deal lovingly (Rom. 13:13). The NT takes up a critical attitude not only to ethically reprehensible jealousy but also to zeal for the law. Thus Paul rejects his previous zeal "for the traditions of my fathers" (Gal. 1:14). It was just this "being zealous for God" (Acts 22:3) that had caused him to become a persecutor of the church (Phil. 3:6). As he looked back, he recognized that he had acted as a pious Israelite who was not enlightened, as was the case with the majority of the Jews in his time (Rom. 10:2).

"But zeal in itself is not rejected. Quite the contrary is true. Paul rejoiced that "godly grief" had produced repentance and zeal (2 Cor. 7:11), and he expressly called men to zeal, for it is good, if it is for Christ's sake, who himself was zealous for God (Jn. 2:17). He expressly praised the missionary zeal which surrounds others with good (Gal. 4:18, RSV "to be made much of"; cf. 2 Cor. 11:2, where Paul speaks of "a divine jealousy"). Especially there is the call to "earnestly desire" (zeloute) the gifts of the Spirit grace (charisma, 1 Cor. 12:31; 14:1, 12, RSV "you are eager" ; 14:39), which can be rightly used in love which is free of jealousy (1 Cor. 13:4). Finally, there is a positive zeal for the welfare of others (2 Cor. 7:7; 9:2), for the right (1 Pet. 3:133) and good works (Tit. 2:14), but here too love must take preeminence over zeal." [NIDNTT, s.v. "zeal"]</blockquote>
What should be clear from this is that Jealousy (biblical usage) is Not the same as Jealousy (modern, English usage). They are two very different meaning-complexes.

So, what we have here is NOT our customary meaning of "jealousy," but rather an expression denoting a passionate commitment, intense ardor, and protective love, in contexts of commitment and intimacy. God's jealousy is a sweet guarantee that His beloveds do not "drift away" into meager forms of life and unfulfilling modes of existence. He is a passionate Good Shepherd (to use the protective image) and totally loving-loyal Spouse (to use the intimate image). This kind of intense and loyal and active and trustworthy love is sought by all hearts...

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/madgod.html

Kurieuo.

[JBirdAngel]

ill just do this here for now, but is it appropriate to make a post thanking others for there posts? Thank you for all responses to any posts... as im not sure if this is appropriate or not, so thought id say it atleast