believe
-
JBirdAngel
- Recognized Member
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:01 pm
believe
how do you know if you believe? ... hopefully i tend to worry about things that i just worry about and arnt real... so hopefully im just worrying i dont believe or soemthing... but how do you know you believe... i mean it seems a stupid question to me, and a simple answer, that if you believe you believe and you know you believe... but everyone doubts right?... so how do you know if you beleive... thank you
-
jerickson314
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:50 pm
- Christian: No
- Location: Illinois
First, it is important to clarify that belief is not the absence of doubt. I often have intellectual doubts as well, but this does not threaten my salvation. Here's what the Bible has to say about belief:
What it really means to stop believing is if you try to take back control of your own life and consciously choose to live as if God did not exist, or live in rebellion towards Him.
Hence, it is clear that believe as in salvation != believe as in intellectual assent. ("!=" is "not equals"). What "believe" really means is that you let Jesus Christ be Lord over your life. This is shown when you strive to learn and do His will. Even if you find yourself praying, "God, if you exist..." you have probably not lost your salvation. It is good to strive to overcome your doubts, of course. Doubting is certainly not bad, though. Faith that has gone through periods of doubt is much stronger than blind faith that hasn't.James 2:19 (WEB) wrote:You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
What it really means to stop believing is if you try to take back control of your own life and consciously choose to live as if God did not exist, or live in rebellion towards Him.
-
JBirdAngel
- Recognized Member
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:01 pm
i dont know what it means to live rebellious to him and take over your own life again.... like i was raised in a Christian home and stuff and so was a Christian but then have done many things i hate and wish i didnt, and am probably turning to God now more then i ever have... and i worry that i cant be saved or dont beleive and stuff..
-
LittleShepherd
- Established Member
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:47 pm
- Christian: No
- Location: Georgia, USA
I'm going to be a little blunt with you. Being raised in a Christian home doesn't make you a Christian. Your parents can do everything right, but the responsibility to confess your sins, repent of them, and turn to Christ is all on you. I should know -- my parents raised me in church and in Christian schools, and it was only last July(shortly after my 23rd birthday) that something happened that humbled me and caused me to sincerely call out to God for help. I was a stubborn one. I said the "salvation prayer" a dozen times before...but it took the death of my friend's unborn child(while I remained silent) to finally make me see myself as I really was. I hope it doesn't take that much for you.
From the way you've spoken in this and another topic I saw you in, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you really don't sound like a saved person, but rather as a lost person counting on his upbringing to make him a Christian when that's not how it works. I hope that this impression is wrong, but I'm going to go over some important stuff about salvation just in case. Salvation's a serious matter, and it's not something to be left to chance.
The good news is that you've made the first important step. Before we can turn to Christ, we must first know why we need Him in the first place. You claim to have done things that you hate and regret, and I'm sure that you know that as much as you dislike them, they upset God much, much more.
My advice to you is that you go through the 10 Commandments. Think of them as God's perfect standard, and really think about how you've broken all of them, how God views those sins, and what God has in store for all people who have sinned. At this step, guilt is a <B>good</B> thing. It lets you know that the truth is sinking in and working on your heart. I know people like to preach a happy, sappy gospel without ever touching on things like the law, our sinful nature, and God's just punishment for sinners, but what joy is there really in Salvation if you aren't convinced that you have anything to be saved from?
If you're already humbled, only then are you prepared for the gospel part, because let's face it -- if you're not aware of your sinful nature, just how offensive it is to God, and your very real need for a Savior, then you can say the sinner's prayer until you're blue in the face. If you haven't been humbled, you're not going to be sincere. If you're not sincere, then all the "Oh, Jesus, please save me"'s in the world don't do squat. I know this from experience.
Then basically just ask yourself a couple questions:
--Do you believe you're a sinner? Do you <i>really</I> believe you're a sinner, and that the way you are is offensive in the sight of God in light of His perfect standard that He made known through the law(10 Commandments)?
--If yes, and you have a real understanding of your nature, do you understand that God has created a special place of eternal punishment for sinners because their offense is so great, and because He cannot allow sin in His presence?
--If yes, then do you believe that even though God has to punish sin, that He sent His one and only Son(who is also God) to live a humble life, and die the most humiliating death possible at the time? That He did this, taking on the sins of the world, so that He could pay the price that God's righteousness demands of all sinners?
--If yes, then do you believe that Jesus Christ rose again on the third day, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
--That Christ paid the penalty for your sin, and then rose triumphantly having overcome both sin and death so that you would never have to experience your rightful punishment?
--So that you, even having offended God, could now be justified and made righteous in the eyes of God, and would now be allowed to spend eternity in his presence?
If you've gone through that list, and can honestly answer yes to all of the above questions, then you are ready to ask. Prepared speeches are kinda awkward, so basically just go to Him, confess that you know all of the above in whatever words you want to use, and ask Christ to be Lord of your life. If you're having some difficulty with one or more of the above, then again -- go to God and tell Him and ask Him to make the truth clear to you. You can ask all the questions you want here, too, but it's more important that you ask God Himself first. Perhaps he'll use one of us here to reveal the truth to you, but it's just as likely that He'll use something else to make you aware of the truth. He's creative like that.
Once you've gone through with it, there are a couple telltale signs that you are, in fact, actually saved. That you were sincere, and that Jesus responded to your honest pleas.
First, you'll now experience some conflicting desires. On one hand, you will experience this desire to know God more. On the other hand, you'll still have the desire to ignore Him and focus on other stuff. You may find yourself wanting to read your Bible more, but then you may also find yourself wanting to put the Bible on the shelf and play more video games or something. You'll want to obey God and keep his commandments, but you'll also want to go out and party hard on Friday night(or whatever sinful thing you were used to doing). Conflicting desires like this can be confusing or downright distressing, but they're a sign that spiritual warfare is now going on inside of you. And that's a good thing -- it means you've made the first and most important step.
Second, you'll experience this desire to meet together with other beleivers. To talk with them about spiritual things, and to just hang out with other people who also believe in Christ. Christians were made for fellowship, and this is normal and natural. Of course, you may also have a fear(or dislike) of churches, or something else getting in the way of meeting fellow Christians. Again, even if your desires conflict here, it's a sign that spiritual warfare has started up and that you are on the right track.
And that's really all I can tell you without your asking more specific questions. I think I covered all the basics. I hope it all makes sense, and that all your questions get cleared up somehow.
From the way you've spoken in this and another topic I saw you in, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you really don't sound like a saved person, but rather as a lost person counting on his upbringing to make him a Christian when that's not how it works. I hope that this impression is wrong, but I'm going to go over some important stuff about salvation just in case. Salvation's a serious matter, and it's not something to be left to chance.
The good news is that you've made the first important step. Before we can turn to Christ, we must first know why we need Him in the first place. You claim to have done things that you hate and regret, and I'm sure that you know that as much as you dislike them, they upset God much, much more.
My advice to you is that you go through the 10 Commandments. Think of them as God's perfect standard, and really think about how you've broken all of them, how God views those sins, and what God has in store for all people who have sinned. At this step, guilt is a <B>good</B> thing. It lets you know that the truth is sinking in and working on your heart. I know people like to preach a happy, sappy gospel without ever touching on things like the law, our sinful nature, and God's just punishment for sinners, but what joy is there really in Salvation if you aren't convinced that you have anything to be saved from?
If you're already humbled, only then are you prepared for the gospel part, because let's face it -- if you're not aware of your sinful nature, just how offensive it is to God, and your very real need for a Savior, then you can say the sinner's prayer until you're blue in the face. If you haven't been humbled, you're not going to be sincere. If you're not sincere, then all the "Oh, Jesus, please save me"'s in the world don't do squat. I know this from experience.
Then basically just ask yourself a couple questions:
--Do you believe you're a sinner? Do you <i>really</I> believe you're a sinner, and that the way you are is offensive in the sight of God in light of His perfect standard that He made known through the law(10 Commandments)?
--If yes, and you have a real understanding of your nature, do you understand that God has created a special place of eternal punishment for sinners because their offense is so great, and because He cannot allow sin in His presence?
--If yes, then do you believe that even though God has to punish sin, that He sent His one and only Son(who is also God) to live a humble life, and die the most humiliating death possible at the time? That He did this, taking on the sins of the world, so that He could pay the price that God's righteousness demands of all sinners?
--If yes, then do you believe that Jesus Christ rose again on the third day, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
--That Christ paid the penalty for your sin, and then rose triumphantly having overcome both sin and death so that you would never have to experience your rightful punishment?
--So that you, even having offended God, could now be justified and made righteous in the eyes of God, and would now be allowed to spend eternity in his presence?
If you've gone through that list, and can honestly answer yes to all of the above questions, then you are ready to ask. Prepared speeches are kinda awkward, so basically just go to Him, confess that you know all of the above in whatever words you want to use, and ask Christ to be Lord of your life. If you're having some difficulty with one or more of the above, then again -- go to God and tell Him and ask Him to make the truth clear to you. You can ask all the questions you want here, too, but it's more important that you ask God Himself first. Perhaps he'll use one of us here to reveal the truth to you, but it's just as likely that He'll use something else to make you aware of the truth. He's creative like that.
Once you've gone through with it, there are a couple telltale signs that you are, in fact, actually saved. That you were sincere, and that Jesus responded to your honest pleas.
First, you'll now experience some conflicting desires. On one hand, you will experience this desire to know God more. On the other hand, you'll still have the desire to ignore Him and focus on other stuff. You may find yourself wanting to read your Bible more, but then you may also find yourself wanting to put the Bible on the shelf and play more video games or something. You'll want to obey God and keep his commandments, but you'll also want to go out and party hard on Friday night(or whatever sinful thing you were used to doing). Conflicting desires like this can be confusing or downright distressing, but they're a sign that spiritual warfare is now going on inside of you. And that's a good thing -- it means you've made the first and most important step.
Second, you'll experience this desire to meet together with other beleivers. To talk with them about spiritual things, and to just hang out with other people who also believe in Christ. Christians were made for fellowship, and this is normal and natural. Of course, you may also have a fear(or dislike) of churches, or something else getting in the way of meeting fellow Christians. Again, even if your desires conflict here, it's a sign that spiritual warfare has started up and that you are on the right track.
And that's really all I can tell you without your asking more specific questions. I think I covered all the basics. I hope it all makes sense, and that all your questions get cleared up somehow.
-
jerickson314
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:50 pm
- Christian: No
- Location: Illinois
-
j316
- Established Member
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:33 pm
- Christian: No
- Location: Panama City Florida
Well I guess that where you are and the questions you are asking would probably affirm what you believe. Also the guilt you feel over sin makes a statement, unbelievers don't even acknowledge sin.
I can understand where you are coming from regarding certainty, but I'm not sure that you can be certain beyond doubt about anything. Doubt is a part of rational being, but it doesn't need to override faith. The more you seek the more will be revealed and doubt will fade into the background.
I think you are on the right path, just keep on moving forward. If you don't trust your inner vision then just sort out what the bible and others say.
I can understand where you are coming from regarding certainty, but I'm not sure that you can be certain beyond doubt about anything. Doubt is a part of rational being, but it doesn't need to override faith. The more you seek the more will be revealed and doubt will fade into the background.
I think you are on the right path, just keep on moving forward. If you don't trust your inner vision then just sort out what the bible and others say.
-
bizzt
- Prestigious Senior Member
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:11 pm
- Christian: No
- Location: Calgary
What is sin?? Is it not the Direct dis-obedience against God. Just because one does not believe does not make them unaware of their own Evil. They might not recognize the Evil as the Word Sin nonetheless they still recognize it as Evil.j316 wrote: Also the guilt you feel over sin makes a statement, unbelievers don't even acknowledge sin.
-
bizzt
- Prestigious Senior Member
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:11 pm
- Christian: No
- Location: Calgary
LOL... NO problem j316j316 wrote:I guess I should have added 'toward God' after the word sin. Also I wouldn't go so far as to equate sin with evil in all cases. I guess I would say that certainly all evil is sin, but not all sin is evil. I just reserve evil for something more, evil, for lack of a better word.