question about bible and killing?

[jakobp]

I was a quick conversation with an atheist and he was saying how christianity and islam really aren't that different cause they both condone killing and he gave me these two examples:
(Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
(2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

what do you guys think?

[narnia4]

Looks like somebody missed out on the bulk of the New Testament and the Ten Commandments. Those two verses are very specific circumstances, its not like Islam at all.

[Vespetta]

Exodus 20:13: Thou shalt not kill

Matthew 19:18: He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,

There are plenty of verses against murder, he must be pretty selective in what he reads.

[Ivellious]

You forget that modern day Christians don't listen to half the Bible. Parts like those don't count, according to them. Of course, it's hypocritical, but don't tell them that :p

And Islam and Christianity have their differences, but they did come from the exact same source (Judaism) and the majority of the main aspects are similar. The differences are in the details.

[MarcusOfLycia]

You forget that modern day Christians don't listen to half the Bible. Parts like those don't count, according to them. Of course, it's hypocritical, but don't tell them that :p

All parts count. Most Theologians have believed this through the ages. But you also have to understand the context. The context of Chronicles is the history of a particular nation struggling against all sorts of foreign aggressors yet protected by God when they would hear Him out. You will find that Israel's foreign policy is fairly docile for the time period. This text does not order Christians to kill those who don't believe in God.

If someone doesn't consider context, then it would be wise for everyone else to forgo considering what they have to say.

And Islam and Christianity have their differences, but they did come from the exact same source (Judaism) and the majority of the main aspects are similar. The differences are in the details.

The differences are actually quite profound. Islam is not just based on Judaism; it is an extension of Christianity (historically), but it does not adopt much of the Theology of either. Do you know what the differences are?

[Canuckster1127]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are historically tied in places in terms of monotheism. Islam does have both Jewish and Christian influences (and there's places too where I believe Islam subsequently impacted some elements of Christian tradition.) Islam has deep roots as well in the local religions within Arabia that heavily influenced and sourced a lot of what Islam started as and subsequently became.

My opinion anyway. There's a pretty extensive examination of Islam in Will and Ariel Durant's Story of Civilization that I read quite a while back. I'd have to review it and could also check other places but at least in terms of culture, history and influence upon Mohammed and those elements following in it's continued formation there are many Christian and Jewish influences. Mohammed interacted with Jews and Christians through trading envoys and assimilated some of what he thought they taught.

[zoegirl]

Sure, but the sources I have read do not include Judaism in the "roots" in the religion.

[neo-x]

@Ivel

"And Islam and Christianity have their differences, but they did come from the exact same source (Judaism) and the majority of the main aspects are similar. The differences are in the details."

Ivel, you can see the link I have posted below, it shows how much difference on major points exist between Islam and Christianity.
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... ilit=islam

[jakobp]

I'm wondering about those two verses? the first one pretty much, at least what i got, that you can kill anybody who isn't listening to a priest...what do you think?

[Ivellious]

Well, the way I see and have read about the roots of Islam...

Judaism came first of the three monotheistic religions. Most if not all of the prophets in the Christian and Islam faiths were Jewish. Islam and Christianity came later. Christianity is based mostly on the teachings of Jesus Christ, while Islam is generally the teachings of the prophet Mohammed. They are obviously all interrelated, all being monotheistic religions with beginnings in the Middle East. The most important distinction between Christianity and the other two is the place of Jesus Christ...Christianity views Jesus as the son of God, while Judaism and Islam see Jesus as a very important and influential prophet (but still a man). In the early stages of both Islam and Christianity, all three religions were heavily influenced by each other. Obviously, Christianity takes a great deal from Judaism, considering all of its founders and followers were initially Jewish. The teachings of the prophet Mohammed were heavily influenced and based off of Jewish and Christian prophets and their messages (including Jesus). Thus, it can be said that Islam has roots in Judaism, if not as closely as Christianity. One could say that Islam combines the God of Christianity and Judaism with the traditions of more Arabic regions.

When I say that they are all similar, I mean that the central concepts are similar and influenced by each other, while the details regarding daily life and so on are where the differences come in. Let's face it, the "God" referenced and prayed to in all three faiths is essentially the same God, though all three take a different view of that God and how best to serve and worship.

And as far as picking and choosing the parts you want to read and believe in...Yes, context is important. But the Deuteronomy 17 verse is rather clear that worshipping false gods warrants the death penalty by stoning...so what context voids that statement?

[Gman]

I was a quick conversation with an atheist and he was saying how christianity and islam really aren't that different cause they both condone killing and he gave me these two examples:
(Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
(2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

what do you guys think?

Who do you think the Lord G-d is in these verses?

[Ivellious]

do you suggest your Bible holds the commands of multiple Gods? Would that not be blasphemous?

[Silvertusk]

Well, the way I see and have read about the roots of Islam...

Judaism came first of the three monotheistic religions. Most if not all of the prophets in the Christian and Islam faiths were Jewish. Islam and Christianity came later. Christianity is based mostly on the teachings of Jesus Christ, while Islam is generally the teachings of the prophet Mohammed. They are obviously all interrelated, all being monotheistic religions with beginnings in the Middle East. The most important distinction between Christianity and the other two is the place of Jesus Christ...Christianity views Jesus as the son of God, while Judaism and Islam see Jesus as a very important and influential prophet (but still a man). In the early stages of both Islam and Christianity, all three religions were heavily influenced by each other. Obviously, Christianity takes a great deal from Judaism, considering all of its founders and followers were initially Jewish. The teachings of the prophet Mohammed were heavily influenced and based off of Jewish and Christian prophets and their messages (including Jesus). Thus, it can be said that Islam has roots in Judaism, if not as closely as Christianity. One could say that Islam combines the God of Christianity and Judaism with the traditions of more Arabic regions.

When I say that they are all similar, I mean that the central concepts are similar and influenced by each other, while the details regarding daily life and so on are where the differences come in. Let's face it, the "God" referenced and prayed to in all three faiths is essentially the same God, though all three take a different view of that God and how best to serve and worship.

And as far as picking and choosing the parts you want to read and believe in...Yes, context is important. But the Deuteronomy 17 verse is rather clear that worshipping false gods warrants the death penalty by stoning...so what context voids that statement?

Context still applies. Look at the history of Israel. Israel were Gods chosen people that was going to bring about the messiah that would save all of humanity. They were moving into an area surrounded by quite nasty pagan societies. They were held to a much higher standard than normal as they were to be a light on a hill - they were a holy race. So yes some of the laws seem harsh - but if you read "Is God a moral Monster" by Paul Copan then you will realise that some of these punishments were last resorts. We as Christians are no longer held by the law as Jesus came to fulfill it. So it is not that we are ignoring large parts of the bible - is just that large parts of it no longer applies to us. A huge difference.

Silvertusk.

[Ivellious]

My problem with that is: How do we decide which parts no longer apply to us? Why don't the parts about homosexuality and so on only apply to the "higher race"? It's not like the Bible clearly says "by the way, 2000 years from now you'll no longer have to follow these laws, so you can breeze over these parts and get to the parts about you later."

[MarcusOfLycia]

My problem with that is: How do we decide which parts no longer apply to us? Why don't the parts about homosexuality and so on only apply to the "higher race"? It's not like the Bible clearly says "by the way, 2000 years from now you'll no longer have to follow these laws, so you can breeze over these parts and get to the parts about you later."

It's also not like the Bible is the only thing Christians have ever written. There is a lot of material written throughout the ages that answers your questions.