Hugh Ross & Jason Lisle

[CallMeDave]

I just finished watching 2 separate hour long videos from a show called "Insight with Paul Arthur". The first show had Hugh Ross as an in studio guest. The next show, and next night, has Jason Lisle as a guest by telephone. Both shows had the guest tell why he believes in Old Earth Creationism(Hugh Ross) or Young Earth Creationism(Jason Lisle). Each guest also had time to answer questions from callers. While running the risk of beating a dead horse, I just had to point out the arrogance of Lisle again. Lisle said we can't question what God has said in His Word. Jason, don't you really mean that we can't question YOUR INTERPRETATION of God's Word? When a caller called in to say as believers that we shouldn't be dogmatic about creation beliefs because it will turn people away, Lisle also said that when people came to Christ, Christ was "very dogmatic". And "when Jesus quoted scripture, that was the end of the matter." Jason, did you just equate Christ's quoting of HIS scripture to your INTERPRETATION of scripture? Here are the links to the videos if anyone is interested. They are long, but Ross' video taught me some new things, and reinforced some things that I had already heard. http://www.miraclechannel.ca/insight/wa ... d=IS90-101 and http://www.miraclechannel.ca/insight/wa ... d=IS90-100

Why do you suppose God never inspired the Writer(s) of Genesis to simply include the words 'millions of years later...' concerning God creating everything for each day/'age' ? How much influence do you think modern science has had on OECism with Big Bang Cosmology of hydrogen gas coalessing into solid planets and stars via Stellar Evolutions' billions and billions of years for eventual completion ? Finally, do you honestly believe that when people of old read the narrative of Genesis creation, that they naturally inserted millions and millions of years inbetween each mention of morning and evening ?

[RickD]

Why do you suppose God never inspired the Writer(s) of Genesis to simply include the words 'millions of years later...' concerning God creating everything for each day/'age' ?

I really don't know why God didn't say how long each creation day was.

How much influence do you think modern science has had on OECism with Big Bang Cosmology of hydrogen gas coalessing into solid planets and stars via Stellar Evolutions' billions and billions of years for eventual completion ?

I would say, quite a bit of influence, probably. Take a look at Reasons.org, if you want some details. Hugh Ross is great explaining cosmology.

Finally, do you honestly believe that when people of old read the narrative of Genesis creation, that they naturally inserted millions and millions of years inbetween each mention of morning and evening ?

I guess that would depend on whom you ask. I'll say, that if someone just reads Genesis, in English, then maybe not. But, if Genesis is taken in context, with the rest of the creation passages in scripture, then i believe it's clear that the days of creation are very long. You have to remember, scripture isn't meant to be read like a newspaper. There is so much more than a literal, concrete interpretation involved. There were many old theologians who believed the days were long periods of time. And, that was before we had the ability to observe what we can now. Perhaps someone will chime in with some old theologians that held to an Old Earth belief.

[dayage]

Dave,

Why do you suppose God never inspired the Writer(s) of Genesis to simply include the words 'millions of years later...' concerning God creating everything for each day/'age' ?

Because He was setting up for the yom-for-yom analogy He used in Exodus 20:11 and other places. Also, the word yom is the Hebrew word for a long but finite period of time. Thirdly, Hebrews four tells us we are still in God's seventhday.

That the seventh day was a long period of time, which has not ended, was held by Origen, St. Anastasius and St. Augustine. All of the days being long periods of time was popular during St. Bonaventure's time (1221-1274 A.D.). He held the 24-hour view, but said many theologians held to long periods. Long periods of time really gains popularity in the 1600s and continues to today.

Well as Dr. Ross points out, the Bible taught the Big Bang first. It teaches that the universe had a beginning, even of time and that it is expanding. From that came the teaching of a Jewish Rabbi:
Nahmanides, a Jewish Rabbi (1194-1270 A.D.) understood the Torah, to teach what we would call a Big Bang model for the universe:

"...At the briefest instant following creation all the matter of the universe was concentrated in a very small place, no larger than a grain of mustard. The matter at this time was very thin, so intangible, that it did not have real substance. It did have, however, a potential to gain substance and form and to become tangible matter. From the initial concentration of this intangible substance in its minute location, the substance expanded, expanding the universe as it did so. As the expansion progressed, a change in the substance occurred. This initially thin noncorporeal substance took on the tangible aspects of matter as we know it. From this initial act of creation, from this etherieally thin pseudosubstance, everything that has existed, or will ever exist, was, is, and will be formed."