Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
Poyol wrote:I never gave the impression that I was going to 'attack' anyone, nor do you HAVE to defend your views on this almighty being who lives in the sky. My thread was allowed by a moderator, I thought that when I put my views across that Christians who follow the word of God would be patient, and not judge, it is not for man to judge. (Am I right?)
I've just been told that you 'pity' atheists, like we're some stupid creature because we don't believe - what makes YOU* right and US* and THEM* wrong?
YOU* - Christians
US* - Atheists
THEM* - Other religions
I think you'll find that the "disdain" (from my side anyway) is directed toward the arguments often levelled by atheists at theists; however all too often it is a dismissive one, which after a while becomes tiresome, or as we say in my country you just get 'gatvol'.
And importantly, remember your your line of thinking cut's both ways
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
JackEvolution wrote:Why is it bad, wrong or evil to not believe in god??
Bad, because to deny truth has consequences--the more profound the truth, the more serious the consequences; wrong, because God does exist, so to disbelieve is to hold an incorrect position; evil, because we have an obligation to uphold truth. With regard to the last of these, the only way to argue that it is not evil to reject God is to argue that one is invincibly ignorant of His existence, a position that, given the historical agreement of the human population on this issue, proves to be hard to do.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
Jac3510 wrote:Bad, because to deny truth has consequences--the more profound the truth, the more serious the consequences; wrong, because God does exist, so to disbelieve is to hold an incorrect position; evil, because we have an obligation to uphold truth. With regard to the last of these, the only way to argue that it is not evil to reject God is to argue that one is invincibly ignorant of His existence, a position that, given the historical agreement of the human population on this issue, proves to be hard to do.
You see I totally disagree with that. So if I live my life believing there is no god. I'm an evil and a bad human being? And then when I die God will punish me and send me to hell?
Everybody should be allowed to believe what they want. A god who punishes those who don't believe in him is an evil God in my eyes.
Jac3510 wrote:Bad, because to deny truth has consequences--the more profound the truth, the more serious the consequences; wrong, because God does exist, so to disbelieve is to hold an incorrect position; evil, because we have an obligation to uphold truth. With regard to the last of these, the only way to argue that it is not evil to reject God is to argue that one is invincibly ignorant of His existence, a position that, given the historical agreement of the human population on this issue, proves to be hard to do.
You see I totally disagree with that. So if I live my life believing there is no god. I'm an evil and a bad human being? And then when I die God will punish me and send me to hell?
Everybody should be allowed to believe what they want. A god who punishes those who don't believe in him is an evil God in my eyes.
I guess then it will depend on whether or not there is a God and if so, if you're him.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
I find that very sad and want nothing to do with a god like that. But I'm also very confused about the whole thing. Maybe 90% of the worlds population are religious. And nobody wants to talk about it.
It would also be nice to see an answer to poyols question. What makes christians right, and the rest wrong? I believe it's a difficult question to answer. But instead of answers, poyol was just attacked without him even attacking. That's not very nice from a so called christian site.
I think you're reading in tone and assuming motives that aren't there.
Truth isn't always comfortable and when there is truth it's very intolerant of untruth. It's simply the nature of things.
Did you have anything you wanted to discuss or has this provided you with your chance to pass your own judgment and move on?
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
Jac3510 wrote:Bad, because to deny truth has consequences--the more profound the truth, the more serious the consequences; wrong, because God does exist, so to disbelieve is to hold an incorrect position; evil, because we have an obligation to uphold truth. With regard to the last of these, the only way to argue that it is not evil to reject God is to argue that one is invincibly ignorant of His existence, a position that, given the historical agreement of the human population on this issue, proves to be hard to do.
You see I totally disagree with that. So if I live my life believing there is no god. I'm an evil and a bad human being? And then when I die God will punish me and send me to hell?
Everybody should be allowed to believe what they want. A god who punishes those who don't believe in him is an evil God in my eyes.
Well, if the God of the Bible exists (and thus hell is defined as the Bible defines it), hell is merely a place apart from God. Will it be terrible? Yeah, but only because those there will be apart from God. It isn't a place of torture. That's a conjured idea and doesn't really define what hell is like. Hell is the ultimate measure of justice; it means God allows choice. Choose to live with Him or choose to live apart. It is as fair as can be.
Now, if you continue to think of it as a place of fire, torture, and violence, please read Lee Strobel's "Case for Faith". He has an entire chapter on the topic and recommends further reading. If you choose to accept the reality of hell for the purpose of argument, you have to accept the other things Christianity has to say. It isn't fair to the debate to say 'hell and God are mutually exclusive' when you don't hear out what God actually has to say about the topic.
-- Josh
“When you see a man with a great deal of religion displayed in his shop window, you may depend upon it, he keeps a very small stock of it within” C.H. Spurgeon
1st Corinthians 1:17- "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel””not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power"
JackEvolution wrote:so our world and universe is hell! a place where we are apart from god.
Again, not Biblically speaking. And if you want to argue against Christianity, you kind of have to use something that isn't a straw man. Your definition is not the Christian definition, so you aren't arguing with the Christian definition. You are arguing against a Deist's god.
-- Josh
“When you see a man with a great deal of religion displayed in his shop window, you may depend upon it, he keeps a very small stock of it within” C.H. Spurgeon
1st Corinthians 1:17- "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel””not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power"
MarcusOfLycia wrote:Again, not Biblically speaking. And if you want to argue against Christianity, you kind of have to use something that isn't a straw man. Your definition is not the Christian definition, so you aren't arguing with the Christian definition. You are arguing against a Deist's god.
Well I'm not a Christian and don't want to argue against Christianity either. Religion of all sorts is just superstitious nonsense to me. From my experience...Religion just looks like some kind of way of life like a codec or something like that. Written by scared men in a time where humans had less knowledge of things. For example: say 2000 years ago an earthquake shook the ground. People didn't know what it was and came to the conclusion that a higher being caused it. Or the moon eclipsed the sun. People saw it like if the gods were punishing them or whatever. What are your thoughts on this?
JackEvolution wrote:I'm all ears for someone to tell me otherwise
That's what the website is for. Discussing every single caveat you might have with Christianity in this thread is not the way to go about it.
Read the site, ask for additional resources (I listed a book already that I highly, highly recommend), and make your decision based on evidence. I can assure you, this is the most important topic in the world, as it will shape everything else about your worldview/philosophy/religion.
If you still have questions after all that, then just post them. But you've already listed enough things that you are unsure about to make it impossible to answer in this thread.
-- Josh
“When you see a man with a great deal of religion displayed in his shop window, you may depend upon it, he keeps a very small stock of it within” C.H. Spurgeon
1st Corinthians 1:17- "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel””not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power"
