Jesus was not God...again.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Sat May 21, 2005 1:41 pm

another jw thought: if Jesus were God, his death would not have been a sacrifice, because God cannot die and he would have known that. because Jesus was not God, he made the most extreme of sacrifices: knowing he was dying for reasons/actions not his own. also, the possibility that he must have had some doubt about what would happen to him makes his act even more noble: "why have you forsaken me?"

what do you guys think?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:58 pm

He was God in and human form, and all Christians agree that He died a physical human death. Then there is the communicatio idiomatum (Google it), where both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. With regards to the second issue you present, it is evident within the Gospels that Jesus knew His purpose and why He had come well before His crucifixion (e.g., at the last supper).

Kurieuo.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Sun May 22, 2005 11:12 am

i'm just going to print up everything on this site dealing with this issue. i refuse to continue having this conversation with this guy.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:05 pm

Yeah it can get tiresome.

I've known someone else who in the end just agreed to disagree. I remember when I had discussions with them, they didn't end until I moved

(no I didn't move because of them

). I often think, if only I knew back then what I know today...

But in the same way I could admire a true Christian striving with others with their beliefs, I can admire the persistence of JWs. Their intentions are good, even though their theology isn't.

Kurieuo.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:45 pm

Kurieuo wrote:But in the same way I could admire a true Christian striving with others with their beliefs, I can admire the persistence of JWs. Their intentions are good, even though their theology isn't.

What is that saying? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sun May 22, 2005 7:50 pm

It is saying I can respect the fact that they don't want me to go to hell, just like I don't want them to miss out on being with God. Working from such an understanding can make dialogue more pleasant.

Kurieuo.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sun May 22, 2005 8:30 pm

Kurieuo wrote:It is saying I can respect the fact that they don't want me to go to hell, just like I don't want them to miss out on being with God. Working from such an understanding can make dialogue more pleasant.

Kurieuo.

I didn't word that correctly.

I meant to say "Now, what is that common saying? Oh yes: 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions.' "

Anyway, I think it's a good saying. Good intentions are not enough. Yes, they are necessary, but they are not the sole thing needed to reach God.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:17 am

Is belief that Christ was God necessary to salvation?

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:16 pm

i've wondered the same thing. i don't believe so...just accepting him as your savior.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:22 pm

I believe everyone will be judged on their own understanding and what they could have understood if they sought to know it.

Jesus being God is necessary for our salvation, but believing Jesus is God... well if one doesn't believe this then I begin wondering who they believe Jesus is, and whether it is really the same person I know? Maybe it is to such people Christ will say, "begone for I never knew you"? Regardless of our salvation which solely lies with Christ's judgement, I'd recommend any Christian looking into Christology and working out why Christ being divine is important for our salvation.

Kurieuo.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:27 pm

Mastermind wrote:Is belief that Christ was God necessary to salvation?

That is a good question. Jesus did say "I am the Way." so it would seem logical that he is, well, the Way.

However, not believing in Jesus' deity presents problems. If Jesus wasn't God, he was either an evil liar, a lunatic, a made-up myth, or some type of pantheistic guru. Those type of people generally don't lead one to salvation. Just a thought.

jerickson314 · Post by **jerickson314** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:07 am

Forge wrote:However, not believing in Jesus' deity presents problems. If Jesus wasn't God, he was either an evil liar, a lunatic, a made-up myth, or some type of pantheistic guru. Those type of people generally don't lead one to salvation. Just a thought.

Perhaps someone just hasn't examined the evidence and doesn't realize what you just said. The big question is whether this person can obtain salvation.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:36 pm

I see and understand.

I doubt God would judge someone who literally had no chance to discover Christ. It's not Abraham's fault that he was born in the wrong time.

The same holds for others, like those people in deep jungles who've never heard of Jesus.

Now, for people like Muslims and Jews and others... I am not sure. In a globalized world, I doubt these people have never had the chance of Christianity brought to them in some form. On the other hand, I'm sure God is very flexible. At this point, I'm split.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sun May 29, 2005 3:02 pm

Prodigal Son wrote:another jw thought: if Jesus were God, his death would not have been a sacrifice, because God cannot die and he would have known that. because Jesus was not God, he made the most extreme of sacrifices: knowing he was dying for reasons/actions not his own. also, the possibility that he must have had some doubt about what would happen to him makes his act even more noble: "why have you forsaken me?"

what do you guys think?

JWs are wacky aberrationists.

jors23 · Post by **jors23** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:10 pm

the divinity of christ has been a big issue for me. i just don't know. as far as jesus saying "i am the way," and through him we are saved that could mean his teachings and not literally him. i'm hesitant to see christ as divine and worship him for fear that he isn't really divine. i do believe in god so very much, but i don't trust christianity. the question of christ's divinity has been debated for thousands of years. at one point it wasn't proven. not until the council of nicea did constantine and 300 other bishops decree that christ was divine. but on what grounds? just as they say he did so many great things that only a divine person could do there is opposing evidence such as christ's relationship with mary magdalene. which today, i was just told by and episcopalian that she's been taught her whole life that christ was divine but imperfect and used his relationship w/mary to back that up. i always thought that the divinity of christ was one of the founding principles of christianity. but this opposing belief surprised me. so i'm thoroughly confused and don't trust christianity at all.

Evidence for God from Science

Jesus was not God...again.

Jesus was not God...again.

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