"Secular Education"

[Ivellious]

So I've noticed a lot of comments lately regarding the failings and immorality of the "secular" public school system in America. I guess I'm concerned at the notion that people have issues with the education system here (which is fine, I do as well to some degree), but rather than look at those problems themselves there seems to be some implied correlation between the fact that Christianity is no longer the staple of our education and the flaws in the system. Some have gone so far as to say the ultimate reason for these problems is that lack of Christianity in the classroom.

It bothers me to think that some people would be so hostile toward something simply because it does not explicitly endorse or emphasize your religious beliefs, or to unnecessarily draw a connection between every problem and "the growing secular culture in America." In particular, attacking public education for things wholly unrelated to religion seems to be rather offensive to teachers and administrators who dedicate their lives to educating our youth.

Why is it a problem to have secular education? Why does one religion need special precedence over all others when we live in a greatly diverse society? I'm not saying religion should be suppressed, but I disagree with those who want to present Christianity as part of a child's education if they or their parents want no part in it.

[RickD]

So I've noticed a lot of comments lately regarding the failings and immorality of the "secular" public school system in America. I guess I'm concerned at the notion that people have issues with the education system here (which is fine, I do as well to some degree), but rather than look at those problems themselves there seems to be some implied correlation between the fact that Christianity is no longer the staple of our education and the flaws in the system. Some have gone so far as to say the ultimate reason for these problems is that lack of Christianity in the classroom

When was Christianity ever the "staple" of our state-run education? I would think only homeschooling, and private, religious schools would have any religion as the staple of what is taught.

It bothers me to think that some people would be so hostile toward something simply because it does not explicitly endorse or emphasize your religious beliefs, or to unnecessarily draw a connection between every problem and "the growing secular culture in America." In particular, attacking public education for things wholly unrelated to religion seems to be rather offensive to teachers and administrators who dedicate their lives to educating our youth.

One thing I've noticed, living smack dab in the middle of the bible belt, is that many teachers here, are Christians. It's a huge difference between here, and the teachers and schools in a very "liberal" Massachusetts. Public schools are secular by their very nature, so I have no real problem with public schools not endorsing any religion. Actually, I would have a problem if the schools endorsed any specific religious beliefs. If I want my son to be taught religion in school, I'll send him to a religious school.

Why is it a problem to have secular education? Why does one religion need special precedence over all others when we live in a greatly diverse society? I'm not saying religion should be suppressed, but I disagree with those who want to present Christianity as part of a child's education if they or their parents want no part in it.

I'm sorry, Ivellious, you won't get much of a disagreement from me. I agree with you here.

[Ivellious]

I've heard people argue that for the better part of the 20th century the Bible and Christianity as a whole were more present in school classrooms than they are today, where generally speaking religion isn't the forefront of discussion outside of a religious studies or world cultures class.

I'm not necessarily always looking for arguments, RickD. Just input and discussion if warranted. I think, personally, your point about the ability to homeschool or send a student to private school is a good one. My view is, if you want your kids to have a religious upbringing, power to you. There is church, sunday school, private schools, and most importantly, you could simply sit down with your kids and teach them about your religion. I don't think public school is a place for religion, basically, especially since parents should be able to give a basic religious education to their kids regardless of whether the schools are teaching it.

[Reactionary]

I'm not eligible to discuss the American education system as I've obviously never participated in it. However, I do understand what you're talking about, Ivellious. Here are my thoughts.

Young people are in the process of getting to know themselves, and as such, are looking for meaning in life. Christianity offers a meaning, hope, a reason to behave in a moral way, in fact, it describes morality in the first place. This is especially important, because you can teach youngsters to behave, but without an objective moral standard, you won't give them a reason to do so. They'll ask questions and come to the conclusion, "If I'm just a bunch of randomly assembled chemicals, then what's the point of anything? It's better to waste myself with alcohol and have as many one night stands as I can, rather than work hard. Because it makes no difference, whatever I do, I'll end up dead."

As you can see, a "secular", i.e. atheistic worldview is dangerous for the youth. It creates and encourages deceit, adultery, and many other negative effects. I know that because I belong to a young generation, and I've witnessed so many times my peers behaving irresponsibly, justifying it with the typical catchphrase "Life is short." The society is facing a moral crisis that is getting worse, and it will continue to get worse until we come back to God. Ivellious, I know that you're not religious, but even as such, you would have to admit that there are obvious benefits of Christianity in the society. Some atheists say that you can be moral without religion. Yes, you can, but you don't have a reason to be moral. This is why what's happening, is happening.

Regarding public education... I don't think Christianity should be a compulsory part of it, but I believe it should be an optional subject. Christianity should have the special precedence over other religions, primarily because of its credibility, but also due to the influence it has had on the Western society in general.

[Tina]

I'm not eligible to discuss the American education system as I've obviously never participated in it. However, I do understand what you're talking about, Ivellious. Here are my thoughts.

Young people are in the process of getting to know themselves, and as such, are looking for meaning in life. Christianity offers a meaning, hope, a reason to behave in a moral way, in fact, it describes morality in the first place. This is especially important, because you can teach youngsters to behave, but without an objective moral standard, you won't give them a reason to do so. They'll ask questions and come to the conclusion, "If I'm just a bunch of randomly assembled chemicals, then what's the point of anything? It's better to waste myself with alcohol and have as many one night stands as I can, rather than work hard. Because it makes no difference, whatever I do, I'll end up dead."

As you can see, a "secular", i.e. atheistic worldview is dangerous for the youth. It creates and encourages deceit, adultery, and many other negative effects. I know that because I belong to a young generation, and I've witnessed so many times my peers behaving irresponsibly, justifying it with the typical catchphrase "Life is short." The society is facing a moral crisis that is getting worse, and it will continue to get worse until we come back to God. Ivellious, I know that you're not religious, but even as such, you would have to admit that there are obvious benefits of Christianity in the society. Some atheists say that you can be moral without religion. Yes, you can, but you don't have a reason to be moral. This is why what's happening, is happening.

Regarding public education... I don't think Christianity should be a compulsory part of it, but I believe it should be an optional subject. Christianity should have the special precedence over other religions, primarily because of its credibility, but also due to the influence it has had on the Western society in general.

I agree. I was having a conversation with a classmate the other day, she believes in GOD but not the Bible-- shes drinks, does drugs, and has slept around a little. She justifies it by saying, exact quote, "Life is short"...I also have another friend--she used to be Christian but after we learned about the evolutionary theory and theories of origins of life in biology class....it convinced and she's no longer a Christian.....it seems as if the schools "teach" atheistic views. When origins of life subject was taught, there nothing about creationism at all in the books. Nothing. In my opinion, they shouldn't teach the theories of origins of life without mentioning creationism. Our country started off Christian...our schools started off Christian. I don't think religion was takin out of schools, it was just replaced with atheism. There are other hostile people. I've heard of college professors criticizing their students for being Christian. I've heard of schools being attacked for having anything Christian related to them. Ex.- a football team had a verse out of the bible on their banner-- a parent of a different religion got mad and chewed out the school. I think there was a petition signed and the schools football team was no longer able to use the verse. It seems like Christianity is gettin criticized all of the time, and yet people expect others to respect their different religions. We can't even have one verse on a banner

[wrain62]

I ould have to agree that a public education has to be secular for the sake of a common demoninator connecting worldview and all I can do is shake my fist at it. At least the public education should be making class time for thinking and less for daycare so that when I leave I know how to get an education without going to college (it is all they seem worried about); but at least it makes the masses literate. The source of immorality is mostly the students ith the media ideas enjoy trivialization, hedonism, no shame propensity,etc...(the curriculum and worldview of the secular does not do much to say that it is bad btw). Secularism leads to loss of shame; pluralism(common demoninator goal and everything) intead of blessing all religions it ends up only blessing only skepticism; and materialism which leads to loss of meaning and I would also say hedonism. All of these have thier place even though they lead to currption of the moral law otherwise there would be no place to connect to others in dialogue, friendship, and understanding but I stand againt them as the reigning zietgiest.

*Ravi Parrot* I like his ideas.