Argument from bad design. Very, very bad design!

[Vespetta]

Good find, Vespetta. I can't believe I missed that article. It makes a lot of sense. How dare you bring logic into the debate?!?

Here's the full link if you want to take a look: http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... nebad.html

[RickD]

Good find, Vespetta. I can't believe I missed that article. It makes a lot of sense. How dare you bring logic into the debate?!?

Here's the full link if you want to take a look: http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... nebad.html

Thanks. I'll give it a read when I get a chance.

[Stu]

Sup peeps,

I think that one of the strongest arguments against theism and Christianity is the argument from bad design...

I had some very nasty choking experiences and they even grew up into fear of choking. I had fear when eating my food. I overcame my fears, but in the end I'm a biologist... It seems that we really are so badly designed that we just can't had been created by a loving God.

What do you think?

Well first off, who says we were meant to be created absolutely "perfect"?
I mean if that were the case, why are we so "weak". Broken bones and fatal wounds are an easy occurrence. If perfection was the goal we would have some form of armour on the outside.

Secondly, perhaps what you perceive as bad design is that way for a reason..
We (unlike snakes, birds, etc.) were not meant to swallow food whole; our bodies process food more effectively when chewed. Just because a F1 race car isn't effective at getting you too and from work, doesn't mean it isn't designed properly, or in other words eat slower there buddy, don't "shovel" your food

Thridly, before criticising the current design as being flawed, you need to show that your design would be better, incorporating all the existing functions within your alternate design -- and as Rich's article shows, your proposed model seems worse..

[CallMeDave]

Sup peeps,

I think that one of the strongest arguments against theism and Christianity is the argument from bad design...

I had some very nasty choking experiences and they even grew up into fear of choking. I had fear when eating my food. I overcame my fears, but in the end I'm a biologist... It seems that we really are so badly designed that we just can't had been created by a loving God.

What do you think?

By asserting that the human anatomy (or anything for that matter) is 'a bad design' , you must have an idea of what a good, better, and superior design is . How would you have designed the human anatomy so it could be called 'a superior state' over what it is now in your opinion ?

Regarding choking, should we conclude that our loving God isnt so loving if it is our own actions that contributed to us choking...perhaps from not chewing our food enough / putting too much into our mouths for swallowing / putting foods into our mouths that are inherently difficult to chew and swallow / etc ?

Lastly, when you closely examine the 60 some major systems and processes of the human anatomy which have to all work in perfect unison and to very close tolerances for us to enjoy daily living .... do you see this as ultimately coming from an accidental Cause such as the popular touted 'One celled pond protozoa accidentally coming into existence from an accidental soup pond of chemicals within our primordial atmosphere' ? Or, do you see some semblence of willful design and engineering which only comes from a Mind and Will at work, to accomplish an end product and goal ?

[MrRoboto]

Just a response to the example of the "bad design". Wouldn't two tubes, one for breathing and one for eating, require two mouths? Wouldn't that also require a bigger head and neck? What we have now seems efficient. When I read the OP I automatically thought about German engineering. I work with alot of different types of machines made in many different countries. The ones made in Germany are great as well, as long as you learn how to work on and maintenance them. To do that one has to learn how the machine was intended by the designer to be used and maintained. Once you do that these machines run better than any others if you don't they run terrible. People who don't know this constantly complain about these machines. It isn't that they are designed poorly it is the operator or maintenance guy's ignorance that is the problem. Are humans poorly designed or are alot of these "design problems" just operator error?

[CallMeDave]

Just a response to the example of the "bad design". Wouldn't two tubes, one for breathing and one for eating, require two mouths? Wouldn't that also require a bigger head and neck? What we have now seems efficient. When I read the OP I automatically thought about German engineering. I work with alot of different types of machines made in many different countries. The ones made in Germany are great as well, as long as you learn how to work on and maintenance them. To do that one has to learn how the machine was intended by the designer to be used and maintained. Once you do that these machines run better than any others if you don't they run terrible. People who don't know this constantly complain about these machines. It isn't that they are designed poorly it is the operator or maintenance guy's ignorance that is the problem. Are humans poorly designed or are alot of these "design problems" just operator error?

I agree especially with your final sentence. For anyone to assert the Creator who brought a fully functioning Universe into existence from nothing , 'made a bad design' with us his most prized possession.....is I submit, quite absurd .

[MrRoboto]

Good find, Vespetta. I can't believe I missed that article. It makes a lot of sense. How dare you bring logic into the debate?!?

Here's the full link if you want to take a look: http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... nebad.html

I was going to post this link earlier. It is the best answer to this question there is. Very good explanation indeed.