Allah

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:17 am

Is allah a false god, or the same god we worship?

Do Muslims truly worship the pagan moon god, or the god of the Jews and Christians?

And if Allah is a false god how can Muslims truly be so devoted to him? For example an entire month of fasting during the day time, praying 5 times a day, following such strict law near that of Levitican, seem to be extremely difficult especially without the help of a one true god.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:15 am

Murray, here is a video of Walid Shoebat, in which he tells his opinion of who Allah is. I know many people here frown upon an "ex-such and such" describing something about what religion he left. Many don't think an ex-Muslim, or ex-Catholic, or ex-whatever, is the most accurate person to describe the religion he left. So fwiw, Walid Shoebat is a former "member of the PLO I was involved in terror activity", according to his website:http://www.shoebat.com/shoebat-foundation/who-is-walid/

This is just his opinion, so take it for what it's worth. Here's the video.
Who is Allah?

Dallas · Post by **Dallas** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:57 pm

From what I'm told I haven't done too much research. Historically, Allah is the same God we worship. But, Since Jesus claimed to be God and Christians count that as true, and musslims don't. Spiritually, they're two different Gods.

Ivellious · Post by **Ivellious** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:36 pm

When you get to the base of it, Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Muhammad didn't "make up" a new God, but rather took the teachings of Christianity and Judaism and merged them, so to speak, with other Arabic traditions to spread the word of God to that region. In a way, it's similar to how Christianity assimilated pagans in Europe by allowing certain traditions and holidays to be combined with Christianity.

The biggest spiritual difference is that Islam does not regard Jesus as the son of God and they consider Muhammad to be a prophet of God. Dallas, if what you say is true, then Jews don't worship the same God as Christians either. I'm fairly certain that literally the only difference between Christianity and Judaism is Jesus's place in the religion.

B. W. · Post by **B. W.** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:08 pm

Ivellious wrote:When you get to the base of it, Muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians. Muhammad didn't "make up" a new God, but rather took the teachings of Christianity and Judaism and merged them, so to speak, with other Arabic traditions to spread the word of God to that region. In a way, it's similar to how Christianity assimilated pagans in Europe by allowing certain traditions and holidays to be combined with Christianity.

The biggest spiritual difference is that Islam does not regard Jesus as the son of God and they consider Muhammad to be a prophet of God. Dallas, if what you say is true, then Jews don't worship the same God as Christians either. I'm fairly certain that literally the only difference between Christianity and Judaism is Jesus's place in the religion.

NO not at all.. you are in error.

Allah can be traced back to the Moon God from the Assyrian/Babylon period of history. In fact the Dome of the Rock is a dead give away of this. Assyria’s pantheon began to be blended into the Babylonian Empire’s pantheon of gods. This influenced a Babylonian empire ruler to adopt a foreign god known as Nannar – moon god.

According to the history books, the moon god wanted to supplant the head deity and rule all the stars/universe. The common theme of the moon god -Sin/Nanna- was the crescent moon symbol. The moon god’s goal was to have all other gods religions submit to it and implement a set of law to govern all to ensure submission.

Please note: The Islamic Umayyad Caliphate dynasty, ruled from 661 to 750 and then influenced the Islamic Golden age till 1235 AD time frame. It conquered more than five million square miles, making it one of the largest empires in the known world, the fifth largest empire ever to exist in world history. Some scholars have noted 666-667 they occupied Chalcedon and threaten Byzantium and then took Sicily. By 670 they fought against the Berbers and conquered North Africa. By 672 the 'seven year' Arab siege of Constantinople began. It was around the 666 AD time frame that they began seeking worldwide domination.

The Dome of the Rock was Built 687-691 AD on the temple mount to represent the domination of Islam over the Jews and Christians and Pagans as well as mocks Jesus ascension into heaven. See quote below from online article for details.

The sacred rock over which the Dome of the Rock is built was considered holy before the arrival of Islam. Jews believed, and still believe, the rock to be the very place where Abraham prepared to sacrifice Isaac (an event which Muslims place in Mecca). In addition, the Dome of the Rock (or the adjacent Dome of the Chain) is believed by many to stand directly over the site of the Holy of Holies of both Solomon's Temple and Herod's Temple.

The Dome of the Rock was built by the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik from 688 to 691 AD. It was not intended to be a mosque, but a shrine for pilgrims. According to tradition, the Dome of the Rock was built to commemorate Muhammad's ascension into heaven after his night journey to Jerusalem (Qur'an 17). But there seems to have been more to it than this, since the Dome of the Ascension was later built nearby.

Actually, according to the Oxford Archaeological Guide to the Holy Land, "Abd al-Malik's purpose was more complex and subtle." He wished to erect a beautiful Muslim building that could compete with the majestic churches of Christendom and would be a symbolic statement to both Jews and Christians of the superiority of the new faith of Islam. "His building spoke to Jews by its location, to Christians by its interior decoration." [1]

Quoted from this article online Dome of the Rock

On top of the Dome is a Cresent Moon... the symbol of Islam...

This false diety has more in common with the one mentioned in Isaiah 14:12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17c ... and not the same deity known as the Lord of Host...
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Ivellious · Post by **Ivellious** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:30 pm

So in essence what you are saying is that you simply take one God's symbol and the symbol of Islam and say they are automatically connected. That would be like me saying that because Christianity is symbolized by a cross, that obviously Christianity is descended from Egypt's polytheistic religion (which used the ankh, a type of cross) and possibly even Hinduism and Buddhism (which employ another cross, the swastika). Basically all you say here is that the Babylonians had a moon god, so Allah must be it. Where do the teachings of Muhammad even reference this other god? He certainly never references an entire pantheon of other equal gods.

Through some searching, I found that most apologetic sites reference Islam's belief in a "one God with one part" as contradicting Christianity's holy trinity...Again, I say that is silly to say because Christians believe they hold the same God as the Jews, who do not recognize the holy trinity either. But there is no complaint about Jews not worshiping the "same" God.

B. W. · Post by **B. W.** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:26 pm

Ivellious wrote:So in essence what you are saying is that you simply take one God's symbol and the symbol of Islam and say they are automatically connected. That would be like me saying that because Christianity is symbolized by a cross, that obviously Christianity is descended from Egypt's polytheistic religion (which used the ankh, a type of cross) and possibly even Hinduism and Buddhism (which employ another cross, the swastika). Basically all you say here is that the Babylonians had a moon god, so Allah must be it. Where do the teachings of Muhammad even reference this other god? He certainly never references an entire pantheon of other equal gods.

Through some searching, I found that most apologetic sites reference Islam's belief in a "one God with one part" as contradicting Christianity's holy trinity...Again, I say that is silly to say because Christians believe they hold the same God as the Jews, who do not recognize the holy trinity either. But there is no complaint about Jews not worshiping the "same" God.

Suggest you read the following book...

Next regarding Allah, that is the moon god who is also known by that name as well...

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

http://www.templemount.org/missler.html

http://www.nccg.org/islam/Islam01-Allah.html

Graceismine · Post by **Graceismine** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:56 pm

The Christian God is the God of the Bible. The same One as the God of Israel (Jehovah)

This is HIM:

Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him.

Exo 3:6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Please note He is the God of Isaac. The Arab & Palestinian people do not descend from Isaac. Their origin is Ishmael who was also a son of Abraham. He was not a son of promise..

Jews and Christians worship the God of the Bible, the Muslims do not. The Muslims worship Allah who is never mentioned in the Bible.

The origin of Allah has already been pointed out on the thread.

Actually it amazes me how many “Christians” think Allah and God are one and the same. If they were the Muslims would recognize Jesus as Lord.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:46 am

Graceismine wrote:The Christian God is the God of the Bible. The same One as the God of Israel (Jehovah)

This is HIM:

Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him.

Exo 3:6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
Please note He is the God of Isaac. The Arab & Palestinian people do not descend from Isaac. Their origin is Ishmael who was also a son of Abraham. He was not a son of promise..

Jews and Christians worship the God of the Bible, the Muslims do not. The Muslims worship Allah who is never mentioned in the Bible.

The origin of Allah has already been pointed out on the thread.

Actually it amazes me how many “Christians” think Allah and God are one and the same. If they were the Muslims would recognize Jesus as Lord.

Grace, just to play devil's advocate here, you said that Jews and Christians worship the same God, the Muslims do not. And, if the Muslims worshiped the same God, then they(Muslims) would recognize Jesus as Lord. How do you reconcile the fact that Jews, for the most part, don't recognize Jesus as Lord, with your claim that Jews and Christians worship the same God? It doesn't seem consistent, in what you're saying, that Muslims would recognize Jesus as Lord, if Allah was the same as the God of the bible. But, Jews(again, for the most part), who also don't recognize Jesus as Lord, DO worship the same God as Christians.

I'm not saying that Jews and Christians don't worship the same God. I'm just saying that you're argument doesn't seem consistent.

Ivellious · Post by **Ivellious** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:27 am

Grace, what Rick just said is exactly the point I made earlier. You can't say Muslims worship a different God on the grounds that they don't accept Jesus as their lord, because that is essentially the only difference between Christians and Jews (Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah). By saying that "Allah" is never mentioned in our Bibles, you must also reconcile with the fact that Jews call their God a name other than "God" (there are several spellings). Just because different people call it something different doesn't automatically change what it is. It's just a difference in language.

Byblos · Post by **Byblos** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:46 am

The Arabic translations of the bible use the word 'Allah' as the literal translation for the word 'God'. I speak Arabic fluently and when I say my prayers they most certainly contain the word 'Allah'. I assure you I'm NOT a Muslim

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jlay · Post by **jlay** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:55 am

First let's just make sure we know that the words God and Allah are both just generic terms. They are not names. Drives me bonkers when people will type, G-D as if that term is our creators actual name. Anyway. So, the terms really don't mean much. IMO, the question is fundementally flawed. Worship is a word that has ascribes God the glory He deserves.

We know that Islam and Christianity, although monotheistic and sharing in some things, also conflict in core doctrinal issues. Both could be wrong, but both can't be right. When God sent Jonah to Ninevah no one would say that God was the god of the Assyrians. But He was.

There is little question that Islam borrowed a lot from Christianity and Judaism. But does that mean they worship the same God? No.
Certainly the Muslims are monotheistic, which does make it similar. In fact they would even confirm a good bit of the OT. So, in one sense they recognize one true God. The problem is that they ascribe false revelation. If God is, then He is defined by Himself and not by us. Otherwise, He is not God.
In fact, any of us could take the Bible, and then add in our own little extras such as Mormonism. Does that mean we'd worship the same God. No. I am creating a version of God in my mind, although based in truth, that is a fake God. Do they (Mormons) worship the same God? In one sense yes, and in a bigger sense no. They mischaracterize God and His name.

It's a tough question. Did Paul worship the God of Israel when He denied Jesus was the Messiah?

Please note He is the God of Isaac.

He is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. But this is not limiting that God is over all creation. God was God before Issac. But it is an interesting statement. This has to do with correct revelation and understanding. In that day, just as today, two people could say, 'god,' but be referring to completely different things. So this statement has more to do with making sure the audience knew what the writer or speaker meant when He referenced God.

Jac3510 · Post by **Jac3510** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:14 am

Murray wrote:Is allah a false god, or the same god we worship?

I appreciate all the doctrinal comparisons that have been going on in this thread, but I don't even know what you mean by the word "same" here.

Let me give you a non-theological example. Winston Churchill is commonly reported as saying, "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." Now, it's almost certain he did not say that. Still, let's say Group A is convinced Churchill did say it, and Group B is convinced he did not. Let's say there's a genuine controversy on the matter. Now suppose Al is a member of Group A and Bob is a member of Group B. They are talking about the person they call "Churchill" and his leadership during WWII, an issue on which they have much agreement. A third person, Murray, is inclined to believe Bob is correct, that Churchill did not make the controversial quote; but he agrees with both Al and Bob on the value of this "Churchill's" leadership during WWII. But now, Murray asks, "Is Al's Churchill a false Churchill, or is the the same Churchill Bob is talking about"?

That would be kind of a silly question, wouldn't it? Both would be talking about the same Churchill. It would just be that Al and Bob disagree about what should or shouldn't be attributed to that man.

That's the way I see the Allah/God debate. There are actually some deep philosophical issues surrounding this question. I mean, the words "Allah" and "God" refer to some concept. But those concepts are not identical. Yet are those concepts themselves referring to a real entity? To what extent can the concept be mistaken and still said to be referring to that entity? Do the concepts have to be absolutely identical, because if so, I would insist that you and I probably worship different gods, even though we are both Christians, since I'm sure we have different views of God somewhere in there.

Check out this article: http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/spr2 ... fForProNam

It's a great source on the issue of naming and reference.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:31 pm

Byblos wrote:The Arabic translations of the bible use the word 'Allah' as the literal translation for the word 'God'. I speak Arabic fluently and when I say my prayers they most certainly contain the word 'Allah'. I assure you I'm NOT a Muslim .

Byblos, you're a Catholic Muslim?

I thought I've heard everything, but this takes the cake! What is this world coming to?

Graceismine · Post by **Graceismine** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:19 pm

Rick said

Grace, just to play devil's advocate here, you said that Jews and Christians worship the same God, the Muslims do not. And, if the Muslims worshiped the same God, then they(Muslims) would recognize Jesus as Lord. How do you reconcile the fact that Jews, for the most part, don't recognize Jesus as Lord, with your claim that Jews and Christians worship the same God? It doesn't seem consistent, in what you're saying, that Muslims would recognize Jesus as Lord, if Allah was the same as the God of the bible. But, Jews(again, for the most part), who also don't recognize Jesus as Lord, DO worship the same God as Christians.

I'm not saying that Jews and Christians don't worship the same God. I'm just saying that you're argument doesn't seem consistent.
Of course, if Jesus' remains were to be found, Christianity would be falsified! But we can be confident that no such discovery will ever be made because we have the self-authenticating witness of the Spirit that Jesus is risen.

Really good point. Actually some Christians don't recognise Jesus as Lord.

Bad argument.

The New Testament accepts that the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob is God. The Christians of the New Testament accept that it is so. Early Christian church accepts that it is so. Jews accept that it is so.

The reason Jews do not accept Jesus as Lord is because they simply didn't recognise Him as the Messiah for whom they were looking. They were looking however for the One promised in the Old Testament, the same One that we recognize as Saviour of the world. The overall Bible teaching backs this up. Islam has no place in Scripture neither does Allah. Our conclusions must be drawn from the Bible, wouldn't you say?

Islam itself calls Jews & Christians "people of the book". They are not the ones claiming that Allah & Jehovah are one and the same. Misguided Christians and the world think that.

I can understand how people are confused between Allah & God, I had to work it out for myself at one stage.

Evidence for God from Science

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