Amen Grace:)Graceismine wrote:bippy 123...I Capeesh, however I don't believe God caused your illness. God used it because He says "Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
Okay. Why is it bad that God created that suffering? What is wrong with that authority? Sure you may want to compare it to a human action, but human creation of suffering is bad only because he is unworthy of such authority. The very nature of human nature makes him unworthy, and his actions that express that evil is evil only for the reason that he has his heart set on playing God. As I said before, suffering is independant of evil. The correlation only comes when humans make themseves in the likeness of God with that abuse of power or lack of care for compassion(which is selfish), which does not apply to God himself(probably because it is there for a reason as I mentioned in the above posts).Xericos wrote:Here's how I view how suffering is caused in the world:wrain62 wrote:You take some of the worst things with suffering and say, "there enough difficulties in the world, why these?", but there will always be a horrendous suffering ; so where would you put a cut off point? Also, Humans are very plastic in that our suffering is relative what we are used to. The less there is to suffer from, the more sensitive we become and feel that suffering at the same level with something softer. I do not get why you put cut off points that are just arbitrary to your liking. The reality of suffering should bring us together as neibors and together with God. Unfairness is a reality, true, but it is always only temporary.
1. Intentional harm caused by man
2. Intentional harm outside of man's control (infectious parasites and disease)
3. Incidental harm (car accident, random animal attack, exposure to chemicals)
Yes, it is arbitrary to call #2 out in relation to suffering as a whole. Here's the difference. #1 and #3 are not caused by God, but by us, our choices and the hazards of everyday life in this world we've developed. #2 was created by God -- a group of organisms whose only method of survival is to feed on us for their own well being. Parasites that are host-specific to humans. It doesn't sit well with me that our loving Father would design creatures such as these, even when considering the fall of man.
Why is the sky blue? Because God made it that way, accept it. Why are there parasites? Because God made it that way, accept it. There's pretty much no room for discussion and it may as well end here. This is not a scientific argument, but more of a personal observation that I strongly disagree with God on (in fact, it's the only one). It's helpful to get other views on this...keep 'em coming.
Bless you brother. Good to be on the same track occasionally.bippy123 wrote:Amen Grace:)Graceismine wrote:bippy 123...I Capeesh, however I don't believe God caused your illness. God used it because He says "Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
I have nothing more to add because you said it perfectly
Thank you my sister in Christ. Your both humble and wise. 2 qualities I hope to increase. You set a good example:)Graceismine wrote:Bless you brother. Good to be on the same track occasionally.bippy123 wrote:Amen Grace:)Graceismine wrote:bippy 123...I Capeesh, however I don't believe God caused your illness. God used it because He says "Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
I have nothing more to add because you said it perfectly
I never saw it like that before. Reason for further study.Therefore, the curse was on this ground/land. Eden, once a paradise, would now produce thorns and thistles like the rest of the world.
There is nothing wrong with the Earth, even with its parasites and natural disasters, because suffering is independant of evil.Graceismine wrote:dayage saidI never saw it like that before. Reason for further study.Therefore, the curse was on this ground/land. Eden, once a paradise, would now produce thorns and thistles like the rest of the world.
Whatever....I maintain that the earth and world in which we live is cursed and is the reason why we do not live in perfection in relation to the topic at hand. Someone said that we cause much of our own illness etc. and that is true but is still indirectly a result of Satan being the god of this world.
It has just occurred to me that your view is that when God created the earth it was not good. The only part that was good was Eden. Is that right?
We look forward to a new Heaven and a new Earth one day. Perhaps that is part of our redemption and the redemption of nature as it groans under the weight of the curse.
off to check Genesis again.
If there is nothing wrong with the earth why this:wrain62 wrote:There is nothing wrong with the Earth, even with its parasites and natural disasters, because suffering is independant of evil.Graceismine wrote:dayage saidI never saw it like that before. Reason for further study.Therefore, the curse was on this ground/land. Eden, once a paradise, would now produce thorns and thistles like the rest of the world.
Whatever....I maintain that the earth and world in which we live is cursed and is the reason why we do not live in perfection in relation to the topic at hand. Someone said that we cause much of our own illness etc. and that is true but is still indirectly a result of Satan being the god of this world.
It has just occurred to me that your view is that when God created the earth it was not good. The only part that was good was Eden. Is that right?
We look forward to a new Heaven and a new Earth one day. Perhaps that is part of our redemption and the redemption of nature as it groans under the weight of the curse.
off to check Genesis again.
????
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Isaiah 65:17 "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.
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Isaiah 66:22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure.
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Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
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2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
We do know that cells mutate so parasites may have done so too.KBCid wrote:I believe a worthy question on this topic is "how do we know that the parasites and such are in the state they originated in"? Suppose for a moment that what we perceive as parasites were actually something else to begin with. There are many times I have debated evolutionists on the subject of a devolving genome.... ours would not be the only ones to devolve... All of creation would be affected.
From my understanding of Gods intent I believe that we are supposed to see what the effects of sin are. Devolving, breakdowns and error are the most observable results we can see all around us. I believe I would not attribute an intentional evil to the creator who says he made all things perfect in the beginning as I would feel pretty bad if I later found out that it was simply a breakdown and decay causing the observations we see now.
Another investigation at the creation evidence museum, the gnarled 'spaghetti-like' formation of copperhead snake venom as seen under the scanning electron microscope before the copperhead snake was 'housed' in a small hyperbaric chamber. After four weeks in the hyperbaric chamber, venom from the same copperhead snake shows a much less distorted structure (less gnarled) indicating a lowering of the toxicity level. Conditions in the hyperbaric chamber are seeking to provide the type of environment that existed in the time prior to the great flood. http://keelynet.com/biology/baugh.htmzoegirl wrote:There is a line of thought that sin didn't necessarily change the organisms but affected the relationships between mankind and the earth and the organisms.
No, the earth was good, but in what context? Notice, the original conditions of the earth (Gen. 1:2). God called it "good" each time He made a change to one of these conditions. "Good" has nothing to do with death, sin, etc. It has to do with the fact that the earth was now habitable and put under the care of man (God's image on earth).It has just occurred to me that your view is that when God created the earth it was not good. The only part that was good was Eden. Is that right?
Will you please show how the context shows that it was the earth and not the land of Eden which was cursed.Whatever....I maintain that the earth and world in which we live is cursed and is the reason why we do not live in perfection in relation to the topic at hand.
KBCid wrote:Another investigation at the creation evidence museum, the gnarled 'spaghetti-like' formation of copperhead snake venom as seen under the scanning electron microscope before the copperhead snake was 'housed' in a small hyperbaric chamber. After four weeks in the hyperbaric chamber, venom from the same copperhead snake shows a much less distorted structure (less gnarled) indicating a lowering of the toxicity level. Conditions in the hyperbaric chamber are seeking to provide the type of environment that existed in the time prior to the great flood. http://keelynet.com/biology/baugh.htmzoegirl wrote:There is a line of thought that sin didn't necessarily change the organisms but affected the relationships between mankind and the earth and the organisms.
interesting indeed.
Genesis states no such thing. If that is in the second sentence of the article, I really don't hold much credence in the rest of the article.Genesis states that life on earth was created 'perfect' and designed to live forever.