Accept Christ?

[ochotseat]

Ochotseat, the filth I spoke of wasn't anything in particular, just all of the unbiblical theologies Christians teach. I won't name any here in case someone believes in it and wants to defend it. I meant everything like that.

Well if you don't elaborate on it, we won't know how we feel on the issue.

[kateliz]

Sorry I didn't respond to that earlier. I didn't get an e-mail update on the thread! Why in the world do the update e-mails just not come sometimes? It's made me forget of threads I was participating in more than once.

I don't care to name them; there'd be too many and I'd offend everyone I'm sure. Let's leave it at that.

[TL]

Lutheran.

[ochotseat]

Sorry I didn't respond to that earlier. I didn't get an e-mail update on the thread! Why in the world do the update e-mails just not come sometimes? It's made me forget of threads I was participating in more than once.

I don't care to name them; there'd be too many and I'd offend everyone I'm sure. Let's leave it at that.

I think I have a clue what they are, but you have to keep in mind that the reason the Church is growing is because of the ecumenical evangelical movement.

[kateliz]

the reason the Church is growing is because of the ecumenical evangelical movement.

Blasphamey! The Church grows because individual people find God, or rather, are found by God, (as someone like Peter in the NT said.) The growth of the Body does not depend on the ecumenical movement!

[Dan]

the reason the Church is growing is because of the ecumenical evangelical movement.

Blasphamey! The Church grows because individual people find God, or rather, are found by God, (as someone like Peter in the NT said.) The growth of the Body does not depend on the ecumenical movement!

The ecumenical movement is serving to unite all the churches under one banner, and so Christ will be above one banner, not several as it is now. The Pope and catholics are opening their arms to our orthodox brothers and unity with protestants is just around the corner. We will be a single body before the end times begin I believe.

[ochotseat]

The ecumenical movement is serving to unite all the churches under one banner, and so Christ will be above one banner, not several as it is now. The Pope and catholics are opening their arms to our orthodox brothers and unity with protestants is just around the corner. We will be a single body before the end times begin I believe.

Sounds like Kate doesn't care or understand that the ecumenical evangelical movement is the primary reason why Christianity is still the largest religion and not behind Islam yet.

Unfortunately, low birth rates and static religiousness in the West are contributing to the decline of Western Christianity. Islam is already growing faster than Christianity every year due to high birth rates.

Ecumenical evangelism allows us to compensate for the falling numbers of Western Christians with more religious Christians from Africa and Asia.

[kateliz]

It is foolish to think that man has to come up with schemes to advance His kingdom. I believe the ecumenical movement will be the destruction of Biblical truth because it will be willingly sacrificed for the sake of false unity. The Body of Christ is already one and cannot be divided. It is a spiritual entity. And if Christians all join together like that they would most defintely try to set up a government for themselves. I'm sure the RCC wouldn't have it that they disband, and so it would probably be under a somewhat altered version of themselves. This would play right into the Antichrist and false prophets hands as they would easily have this government join the whore of Babylon or somehow become it, (or will have already been it.) Let us just all be nondenominational Christians who have different views, why not? If any Christian is concerned about dividing the Body, then don't belong to a denomination!

[ochotseat]

It is foolish to think that man has to come up with schemes to advance His kingdom. I believe the ecumenical movement will be the destruction of Biblical truth because it will be willingly sacrificed for the sake of false unity. The Body of Christ is already one and cannot be divided. It is a spiritual entity. And if Christians all join together like that they would most defintely try to set up a government for themselves. I'm sure the RCC wouldn't have it that they disband, and so it would probably be under a somewhat altered version of themselves. This would play right into the Antichrist and false prophets hands as they would easily have this government join the whore of Babylon or somehow become it, (or will have already been it.) Let us just all be nondenominational Christians who have different views, why not? If any Christian is concerned about dividing the Body, then don't belong to a denomination!

What you're saying isn't making much sense. Christian principles aren't being compromised or sacrificed in conservative denominations and the Roman Catholic Church as shown through conservative Christians such as Billy Graham, Condoleezza Rice, President Bush, Pope Benedict XVI, etc.

If you want to abolish denominations, you will be contributing to the disarray of the organization of Christianity. Not everyone wants to worship the same way. Christianity's struggling to regain its former footing in developed countries, so people who oppose evangelism such as you will only contribute to its decadence in the developed world.

[kateliz]

Christian principles aren't being compromised or sacrificed

They will be if all Christians join this movement.

If you want to abolish denominations, you will be contributing to the disarray of the organization of Christianity.

That is exactly what the ecumenical movement is trying to do though, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it trying to make us into one great, big denomination, if you will? And the organization of Christianity was done by God. The spiritual Body of Christ is organized in the exact way He wants it. Some are eyes, legs, hands, ears, etc. That is the organization of the Body, and it cannot be undone.

Not everyone wants to worship the same way.

Which is why you find a church that you like. You don't need denominations in order for churchs to vary!

Christianity's struggling to regain its former footing in developed countries, so people who oppose evangelism such as you will only contribute to its decadence in the developed world.

I do not oppose evangelism. To assume so is ridiculous and entirely unfounded. A lot of what could be contributing to the decline of the "foothold" is watered down Christianity and unbiblical truths being taught. I see that increasing greatly as a result of the movement. And have you ever heard of revivals? What do you think happened in the 1800s, an ecumenical movement?

[August]

I guess it would make sense to ask how the main denominations differ? Christian churches by definition have to believe in Christ as a saviour, part of the Holy Trinity and the redeeming characteristics of Jesus's crucifixion and blood, as inerrantly described in the Bible. Yes, many church traditions differ, but as soon as churches move away from the above beliefs, can they still be called Christian churches?

In general, I believe that the main message is the same for all Christian churches, and as soon as their traditions or teachings vary from that, they are by definition not Christian any more, and as such should not be treated as Christian.

We then come down to what traditions interpret Scripture the best, and again I have to opine that as long as the main messages remain the same, it is up to the individuals who make up a denomination to use their God-given wisdom to evaluate Scriptural validity. It is not without reason that God tells us to acquire knowlege of Him and His thoughts and wishes, and critically evaluate whether those who lead us in the church are truly God-inspired. Some denominations allow for more of this than others do, and it is down to individual choice to what extent someone wishes to accept the word of church leaders, while at the same time as active Christians continue to evaluate whether the word of God is followed.

I have left denominations in the past because of what I believe was them straying fom Biblical teaching, and I would encourage all Christians to study and pray enough to be able to make a sound judgment. It is not an easy decision, but to this day has my decision proven to be correct.

I also believe that:
"John 14:2 (NIV) In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you."
tells us that as long as we follow what Jesus teaches, there are room for differences in the way we worship, the way we conduct church services and other traditions. We are all uniquely made, so I don't expect that God would expect us all to follow the exact same traditions. And Jesus has gone to prepare a place for all of us, I don't think He is offended by mulitple traditions that still follow His teachings.

Once we can agree on the fact that as long as traditions are not beyond the boundaries of Scripture, we are down to basic doctrine and teaching, and at least to me, the argument becomes a lot clearer.

[LittleShepherd]

I'm not for the ecumenical movement, especially since I see that it's a goal of the RCC. I've voiced my views on that organization in other threads, and will not repeat it here. I've already seen too much compromise in organizations claiming to be part of the Body of Christ, especially that most unChristian of organizations -- the Metropolitan Church. If you know anything about them, then you can understand how their teachings would be viewed as offensive unChristian garbage by a recovered homosexual such as myself.

I'm also not for the abolishment of denominations. Some of the traditions held by some of the denominations, yes(I have no problem with Methodist doctrine, for example, but wearing robes is <I>so</I> 1600s). But the end of all denominations period, no. Some are quite useful labels. I know without having to look that I'm going to agree with almost all of the doctrines of a Baptist or Pentacostal church -- the only difference is that Pentacostals tend to be more rambunctious(I prefer the more laid-back atmosphere of a Baptist church), and I don't need to speak in tongues to know I'm saved. Likewise, I know that I'm going to have to read the church charter if I ever look into a Presbyterian or Lutheran church. They often, though not always, hold to some beliefs I'm not comfortable with.

I think the only problem with denominations is when you start using them as a divisor rather than as the simple tool that they are. Or if you become unwilling to compare your church's teachings with the Bible to make sure they match up. I hold to every belief that my church officially claims, but if I were to someday find out that one of them didn't match up with the Bible, it'd have to go.

[ochotseat]

They will be if all Christians join this movement.

Which is why you find a church that you like. You don't need denominations in order for churchs to vary!

The ecumenical movement only exists to unite Christians and to spread the Word. The basic message of the ecumenical movement is for all Christians to accept Christ and the Trinity. All other aspects of Christianity and biblical interpretation are up to the individual or their denomination.

Do you actually swallow that it'll eliminate the differences between denominations and Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox? Those differences are too deep and historical to ever disappear.

A church is a congregation and congregations belong to a denomination. Denominations have existed for centuries, so they'll never vanish.
You should read my post on the Church in the West.