If the 2012 presidential race is between Obama and Romney...

[Murray]

Tax breaks are in essence not a smart thing. Honestly 80% of the people who get them do not use them for the purpose they are intended for (being that money put into the market), but mainly most middle and lower folk use them to pay off bills and taxes, so it kind of ends up being welfare in a sense for them.

It would be smarter to give people a break in which they could only use the money or investment, but then that is the government pretty much pumping money into the economy and bordering on socialism again.

I suppose the mind set for giving tax breaks to the rich is that they will use that money to further invest and stimulate, but sometimes we forget not that all rich are wall street people, some (ALOT) are just moochers who inherited it or divorced for it (golddiggers -sorry-).

But I do see a problem in 1% of the population paying like 40% of our nations taxes while the bottom 40% pays under 10%. A lot of the rich are taxed beyond belief (but not so they are no longer filthy rich). The fact is the Gov. will not get enough money out of further taxing the rich to have any real impact other than giving the impression to the poor that "the big bad greedy evil rich are getting taxed more so come vote for me because I fight for you".

So yes, I agree tax breaks are silly, but I think they are silly for all classes. We also really need to fix this welfare system, I get sick when I see these welfare moochers living in fine houses, equipped with xboxes, huge screen tv's (ect...) and still constantly complaining about how poor they are. Read into what standard poor living conditions are like, it will surprise you, I think it's like 92% or something have an xbox and at least 2 tv's. When I see people who are in welfare driving around in low riders with chrome wheels and a 2000$ stereo system it starts to really make me think about how much these people are really suffering.

[Canuckster1127]

The stereotypes are not really all that close to reality. The irony is that promoting those stereotypes (welfare queens, the lazy poor etc.) is as insidious a form of class warfare as anything else out there that people renounce. The reality is very different than the portrayal. There's also something to be said when government policy creates situations to where working is punished instead of rewarded at the lower end.

[Murray]

I lived in a welfare neighborhood while we looked for permanent housing, and I can tell you right now they are very close to true steryotypes. All had beautiful cars in which they took massive pride (good thing), but never the less they were 20-30k cars that they should not be able to afford. Much of their housing pay was by the gov., most did have more luxury's than me, a child of parents making a 6 figure salary.

My parents are smart with their money, that is why we are so well off. My parents, making a 6 figure salary have NEVER bought a car over 12k, they clip coupons still, they bargin like crazy for cars, always buy used yard care equipment most used everything, my dad LOVES yard sales, always shop in discount stores ect... The only thing they spend the extra buck on in clothing ( a good half my clothing is ralf Lauren)

This might sound stereotypical, but most welfare poor ARE NOT SMART WITH THEIR MONEY.

I'll give you an example. My brother who is a 2nd lieutenant, has a 2000 ford Taurus which my parents bought him for 5k in 2006. He still owns that car even on his 50k salary. One of the privates under his command who makes 18k a year, bought a brand new 15k car with an insane interest rate. Notice something? Why do you think that private is struggling, are the rich bringing him down?

I'll post more tomorrow, 10 over here, gotta get to bed

[Im Fat]

The corporations control america.

It's the corporations that keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Opposite of what the neo cons tell you corporations are not people. They are evil machines, they lift up big oil and put down small business.

[Murray]

The corporations control america.

It's the corporations that keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Opposite of what the neo cons tell you corporations are not people. They are evil machines, they lift up big oil and put down small business.

Your probably one of the Fleabaggers occupying wall street right now too right?

[RickD]

The corporations control america.

It's the corporations that keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Opposite of what the neo cons tell you corporations are not people. They are evil machines, they lift up big oil and put down small business.

Your probably one of the Fleabaggers occupying wall street right now too right?

Murray, do you mean Barry's kids?

[DRDS]

Oh well I don't want to say "I told you so" but with the latest polls, it's looking more and more that my WORST NIGHTMARE is comming true.

I just pray we have someone who is an independent run. Dig Ross Perot out of the old shed and dust off all the mothballs!

Heck between Obama and Romney, ole Ross don't look all that bad! .........



..............


*sigh*

[DRDS]

Based on today's news *sigh* Needless to say I don't plan on voting. For there is no one even worth voting for in this up coming election.

[Seraph]

Right now I feel that Congress are the ones who need to be replaced, not the president.

However it is what it is, so I sort of feel that even though Obama would be the more competent president of the two, it might be better if Romney is elected so that something can get done rather than stay in the gridlock that the US government has been stuck in, with congress doing nothing but saying "no" to a democratic president.

[bippy123]

If I had a choice between romney and obama I would simply pick romney . Wh?, because it isnt Obama. I have my reservations about Romney being anything even close to a conversative, but at least he isnt a socialist bordering on communism lol. At least with Romney the conservative base will have some say-so in what he does if he gets elected.

[Canuckster1127]

I think there's a lot of Americans who have no idea what socialism is and further are very confused when they equate it with communism. Historically, socialism and communism have been mortal enemies.

No issues with anyone supporting Romney. Anyone who thinks Obama is a socialist really doesn't have a good grasp on economics. The difference between Republicans and Democrats in the US when compared to the scope of positions in most countries between political parties is really quite narrow.

[B. W.]

I think there's a lot of Americans who have no idea what socialism is and further are very confused when they equate it with communism. Historically, socialism and communism have been mortal enemies.

No issues with anyone supporting Romney. Anyone who thinks Obama is a socialist really doesn't have a good grasp on economics. The difference between Republicans and Democrats in the US when compared to the scope of positions in most countries between political parties is really quite narrow.

Not true anymore Bart. What you stated may have been back in the 1980’s but not now.

Look at who Obama’s advisors are as well as his self appointed Czars. Read what they have written. Look into their lives and you’ll find radical leftist (Marxist/social/ and frightening ideas). A man is known by the friends he keeps. Obmas policies are designed to have America pay for the crimes and sins of the world. Destroy the USA economically and no longer have it be a superpower ever again. Yes, there are people in this country who hate it and they are now in power. You may refuse to believe this but it is true.

If it looks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it is a duck. Obama promotes unjust class warfare and envy and supports a system that supported the American Indian Removal Act, fought for Slavery, resisted the Civil Rights movement, a system that seeks central control over al aspect of life – seeks to enslave a perpetual voting block.

What does the bible say in James 3:13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and what did Jesus say in Luke 6:45, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks." NKJV

If it looks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it is a duck. Our nation faces a great peril and all his action, words, and polices prove that his agenda is not kind or nice and indeed line up with the belief systems of his all his Czars. Also, his actions show complete disregard of the US Constitution.

Have you forgotten the 1960’s /1970 radicals Bart? Many are now in congress in the Democrat party. They hated American then and still do. This is very serious stuff going on here. If Obama is reelected there most likely will be a revolt or civil war against this travesty. Some people are locking and loading as we speak.

The Health Care systems in other countries looks to take care of the People. The 2000 plus pages of the USA HealthCare Bill seeks only to take care of the Governing powers fooling the people so as enslave a perpetual voting block to depend for all needs upon their Governing system. It is a very bad bill. This bill is not about health care, or taking care of people, it is about solidifying compete dominance of Government over the people to control them.

[Jac3510]

I can respect Santorum's decision. I am disappointed, but that's the nature of politics. It isn't something I'll spend too much time worrying over, since I'm not looking for a savior. I found that in 1987 in my kitchen in Savannah, Georgia.

With that said, I can't vote for Romney. I'll either vote for the Constitution Party candidate or stay home (I'm certainly not voting for Obama). I told more than a few people in the Republican Party I wouldn't vote for the Republican if Romney was the nominee. Best of luck to him (and Obama). They'll have to win without my support.

[Canuckster1127]

I understand that is what you think B.W. I also know some of the sources you use to come to those conclusions and while there are always exceptions, in general I don't find many of those claims to be true.

I understand very well how to build dualistic comparisons and amplify differences to the extreme. I listened to it for years and I even helped in some arenas in the construction of them.

Liberal, socialist and communist are not synonyms for one another. Words do in fact mean things and the meanings are rooted in part in history and not political spin. There's plenty of legitimate reasons to oppose Obama and some of his policies and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the political hyperbole and personal character assassination and it saddens me that so many Christians have not only immersed themselves in it, but have gone a step further and made issues of economics upon which people of good will can disagree with no ill intent or motives, and blended them together in a toxic political/religious cocktail that ties together nationalism, economics and pruports to make those issues determinative of someone's relationship with God or Christ.

I bought that and sold it for many years and I'm not in the market for it anymore.

I'll back out of the conversation because I have no doubt my positions in this realm are in minority and not particularly popular or welcome and frankly it's just not as big a part of my life, time and effort as it was before. I really am more focused on a different Kingdom. I'll inform myself on the issues and vote my conscience and beyond that the whole culture war and battle that is typically engaged in from some quarters doesn't seem like that approach or the focus I see modelled by Christ.

[B. W.]

Not to get in a pointless argument with you Bart. But I grew up radicalized in the 1970’s and understood Saul Alinsky and Piven’s works very well due to living 10 miles south from Washington DC. Hilary Clinton praises Alinsky in her College writings.

You do not understand these people as I do, and I do not think you used to go the Georgetown University in DC and hear them speak as I did in the mid and late 1970’s either. Many who spoke are now in Congress and some are Obama’s czars. They had a plan.

I recall the 1976 Democratic convention and the plans discussed there by what you would term fringe groups. These groups and the very people from these groups are now in Congress and in power. The result – Jimmy Carter was elected and that did not work out so well. I was young but was there at the convention grounds in 1976.

I recognize their names and I challenge you to look into the lives and writings of Obama’s Czars. I will not do that for you. The stuff is there, all from unbiased sources I might add on the internet. Obama was voted as the most leftist Congress person in congress too. All this speaks volumes. I understand these people and their intent. Such is not good and built upon hate, envy, strife – everything the bible warns believers not to do or behave – they do.

I am no longer a radical and lost that 1980, due to finding Christ who changed my life course that same year. I made my public profession for Christ in 1981 at a Southern Baptist Church. The people who I used to hate, and not trust, I found to be unlike anything I learned growing up. They do not hate the disabled, they do not wish old folks to starve, they do not want people to perish due to a lack of health insurance. I discovered they desire the best for people and have a respect for people as well. I discover that the left was using this respect as a the means to divide and conquer too. The left was the problem - not the right.

All the ideas that Obama can be summed up in 2008 in his famous off mic moment about people clinging to guns and religion sums up the man’s leftist character to a tee. Leftist hate America and seek its destruction. They do believe that the USA is the problem of the world today and all that is evil in the world. The ends justify the means to destroy it is what the left believes in and operates under to carry it out. Such people are real and are now in power.

To deny this reality is to play ostrich with the head buried in the sands of unbelief. By the time the ostrich wakes up, it is too late because they’ll come gunning for you and there will be no one around to defend the weak, lame, downcast anymore. If you want to really know the policies of the left, go to the Native American reservations. You’ll discovered a crushed people, impoverished to depend solely of Government aid, prejudice, moral depravity, broken families, and a third world country to boot. That is the goal of the left for all the USA…
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