Hey everyone, not too long ago I was watching a rather interesting pastor speak. He was speaking on various topics and what made very different from many others I have heard he is Jewish and refers to himself as a Messianic Jew.
He stated that he seeks to bring Christianity back to it's Jewish roots.
However one of the things that he spent quite a bit of time on and after hearing about it, it bothered me quite a bit and I was wanting to see your takes on this.
He believes it is very sinful for Christians to celebrate traditional western holidays. And I'm talking about Christmas, Easter, Valentines Day, St. Patricks Day, and even people's birthdays.
The only ones I think he left out were Thanksgiving and July 4th. He mostly cites how many of these Holidays such as Christmas and Easter have pagan origins and started originally as a way to show dedication or worship to various pagan gods such as sun gods or goddesses of fertility.
And he said regardless of the fact that we have "Christianized" many of these holidays gives God no pleasure what so ever. He claims that God is extremely angry and full of rage towards anyone who dares to celebrate and take part in these holidays regardless of whether or not they even realize they are wrong or not.
He goes onto say we need to at least celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection on the correct days and to also celebrate the various Jewish "feast" holidays as well. I believe he stated that Christ's birth was sometime between our late September and late October and that Christ was really crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday and rose I think on a Monday.
Now I'm mostly curious as to what you all know about this and whether or not you all think God will punish us that have intentionally or even unintentionally celebrated all these various "evil" holidays? Do you think this pastor/speaker is off his rocker or do you think he has some good points? Thank you all for your time. GB.
Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
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Silvertusk
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
If we are celebrating God and Christ in some way then I think it is irrelevant which day it is period. Who his he to say that God is angry. What gives him special revelation?
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
Romans 14:5, One day is like the next or some days are special; it is your choice when done in faith.
FL
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
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PaulSacramento
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
Having JW's in my family you can imagine THIS topic comes up a lot, LOL !
Romans 14:5 is correct but for many that isn't enough.
IF we look back into most holidays we will see that Christian meaning behind it BUT if we keep looking back we may find the pagan meaning.
Of course if we look back far enough you will find the pagan meaning/history behind pretty much anything, LOL !
I have a hard time see God being Angry at people celebrating and worshiping him and/or his son ( as in the case of Christmas for example).
I think that each person has to truly look deep withing himself/herself and decide for THEMSELVES if celebrating a holiday is correct for them and WHY.
Romans 14:5 is correct but for many that isn't enough.
IF we look back into most holidays we will see that Christian meaning behind it BUT if we keep looking back we may find the pagan meaning.
Of course if we look back far enough you will find the pagan meaning/history behind pretty much anything, LOL !
I have a hard time see God being Angry at people celebrating and worshiping him and/or his son ( as in the case of Christmas for example).
I think that each person has to truly look deep withing himself/herself and decide for THEMSELVES if celebrating a holiday is correct for them and WHY.
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
That makes sense, and would agree with Romans 14:5. However, I do understand that it will not convince someone who resolutely wants to prove the sinfulness of a birthday or Easter or any other ''Special Day''; or that Saturday is the correct day to worship, or Sunday, and so on. All such arguments are fleshly and must remain so because Ro 14:5 is Scripture.PaulSacramento wrote:I think that each person has to truly look deep withing himself/herself and decide for THEMSELVES if celebrating a holiday is correct for them and WHY.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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Jac3510
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
Col 2:16 would suggest not
Beyond that, I don't understand his argument. Grant for arguments sake that the days have been Christianized and that God takes no pleasure in them. Why does it therefore follow that God is angry at those who celebrate them? Does God take pleasure in my anniversary? I would assume not. So does that mean he's angry when I celebrate that? I would assume not. So it seems that God's not taking pleasure is no reason for God to be angry. Then what is the reason? The Christianization of those holidays? So it's sinful to take secular or non-Christian things and use them to glorify God? If so, then is this very discussion board not highly offensive to God?
Anyway, like I said . . . Col 2:16
Beyond that, I don't understand his argument. Grant for arguments sake that the days have been Christianized and that God takes no pleasure in them. Why does it therefore follow that God is angry at those who celebrate them? Does God take pleasure in my anniversary? I would assume not. So does that mean he's angry when I celebrate that? I would assume not. So it seems that God's not taking pleasure is no reason for God to be angry. Then what is the reason? The Christianization of those holidays? So it's sinful to take secular or non-Christian things and use them to glorify God? If so, then is this very discussion board not highly offensive to God?
Anyway, like I said . . . Col 2:16
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
It seems to me, both in life experiences and in my reading, that God is all about heart attitude and not some legalistic mindset. Case in point, the Pharisees tried to place blame on Jesus for "working" on the sabbath. He went off on them, and rightfully so. They were getting legalistic and loosing sight of the important things. They failed to see the spirit of the law, which is exactly what happens when we try to find loopholes and become legalistic.
I think Jesus couldn't care less about what day of the year we celebrate Christmas and Easter. For him, it's all about your attitude, and not the specific day. Consider the two scenarios below:
1. A family comes together to spend time with each other to share a meal and a beautiful spring afternoon on the Sunday after Easter. The dad is a doctor and had to work Easter Sunday. They plan on having a honey ham since it's everyone's favorite, but there was only one left at the grocery store. The mom walked up to get it at the same time another woman did. The mom offered it to the other woman saying, "I've got a new chicken recipe I can try." The chicken recipe turned out well, but nobody would have complained anyway. They bow their heads and give thanks for Christ's death and resurrection, never knowing why the other woman wanted the ham for her family too: It was to remember her father on his birthday, who passed away last month.
2. Every year at Easter, a family came together for Sunday lunch. This year, the mom nearly didn't get the ham she wanted from the grocery store. There were several other women in line, but the mom beat them to it. She thought, "I need this more than they do. They should have gotten here earlier" She pushed and shoved, but she got her ham. At the house, everything was in order. The finest china was set on the table, and all the children were dressed in matching Easter clothes. After all, the mom had to make sure her family looked good for when the neighbors came over. Those neighbors had such a nice house, but this mom wanted to show those neighbors that her family was better. While getting all of the food ready, she noticed one of the toddlers had gotten his clothes dirty. In an outburst of anger, she spanked him and made him cry. "The neighbors kids were always clean. Now they'll think we're some kind of white trash. I'll be glad when this day is over", she thought.
Which one of these do you think would make God happy?
I think Jesus couldn't care less about what day of the year we celebrate Christmas and Easter. For him, it's all about your attitude, and not the specific day. Consider the two scenarios below:
1. A family comes together to spend time with each other to share a meal and a beautiful spring afternoon on the Sunday after Easter. The dad is a doctor and had to work Easter Sunday. They plan on having a honey ham since it's everyone's favorite, but there was only one left at the grocery store. The mom walked up to get it at the same time another woman did. The mom offered it to the other woman saying, "I've got a new chicken recipe I can try." The chicken recipe turned out well, but nobody would have complained anyway. They bow their heads and give thanks for Christ's death and resurrection, never knowing why the other woman wanted the ham for her family too: It was to remember her father on his birthday, who passed away last month.
2. Every year at Easter, a family came together for Sunday lunch. This year, the mom nearly didn't get the ham she wanted from the grocery store. There were several other women in line, but the mom beat them to it. She thought, "I need this more than they do. They should have gotten here earlier" She pushed and shoved, but she got her ham. At the house, everything was in order. The finest china was set on the table, and all the children were dressed in matching Easter clothes. After all, the mom had to make sure her family looked good for when the neighbors came over. Those neighbors had such a nice house, but this mom wanted to show those neighbors that her family was better. While getting all of the food ready, she noticed one of the toddlers had gotten his clothes dirty. In an outburst of anger, she spanked him and made him cry. "The neighbors kids were always clean. Now they'll think we're some kind of white trash. I'll be glad when this day is over", she thought.
Which one of these do you think would make God happy?
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Gman
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
Well I'm into Messianic Judaism and I simply love the Jewish Festivals.. I'm learning so much about Christ through these feasts.. About other festivals outside the Bible, I see no harm in participating in them also. As long as they are not satanic.DRDS wrote:Hey everyone, not too long ago I was watching a rather interesting pastor speak. He was speaking on various topics and what made very different from many others I have heard he is Jewish and refers to himself as a Messianic Jew.
He stated that he seeks to bring Christianity back to it's Jewish roots.
However one of the things that he spent quite a bit of time on and after hearing about it, it bothered me quite a bit and I was wanting to see your takes on this.
He believes it is very sinful for Christians to celebrate traditional western holidays. And I'm talking about Christmas, Easter, Valentines Day, St. Patricks Day, and even people's birthdays.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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DRDS
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Re: Is it sinful to celebrate traditional western holidays?
Gman wrote:Well I'm into Messianic Judaism and I simply love the Jewish Festivals.. I'm learning so much about Christ through these feasts.. About other festivals outside the Bible, I see no harm in participating in them also. As long as they are not satanic.DRDS wrote:Hey everyone, not too long ago I was watching a rather interesting pastor speak. He was speaking on various topics and what made very different from many others I have heard he is Jewish and refers to himself as a Messianic Jew.
He stated that he seeks to bring Christianity back to it's Jewish roots.
However one of the things that he spent quite a bit of time on and after hearing about it, it bothered me quite a bit and I was wanting to see your takes on this.
He believes it is very sinful for Christians to celebrate traditional western holidays. And I'm talking about Christmas, Easter, Valentines Day, St. Patricks Day, and even people's birthdays.
Hey G, yes I'm very interested in learning more about the Jewish festivals. I don't know how someone like myself who lives in southeast Kentucky would fare though since no one in my family or even anyone else I personally know celebrates the Jewish festivals. But regardless I would like to start celebrating them maybe sometime in the distant future.