The Sabbath, to keep or not to keep....

[PaulSacramento]

Re: the Sabbath in the NT.
Notice that when there is mention of the sabbath in the NT, it is in the gospels and ACTS and what is going on there:
Preaching in the foremost, inside the synagoges.
And what else?
Jesus getting attacked by the Pharisees because he is doing SOMETHING during the Sabbath ( typically healing those that are not in "mortal danger").
Jesus counters of course that the Sabbath is for Man not Man for the Sabbath (and that the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath).
He also mentions that his Father is STILL working and so must he.
The Sabbath was, from what we gather in the NT, one of the most "abused" notions in Jesus's time.
The Hebrews had a "laundry list" of do's and do not's for the Sabbath including what could and could NOT be done and even how far one could travel during the Sabbath.

Just goes to show how MAN had imprinted himself on the Sabbath and made it about the LAW instead of about God.

[BavarianWheels]

Just goes to show how MAN had imprinted himself on the Sabbath and made it about the LAW instead of about God.

Agreed. This, however, does not remove the commandment as binding to the Christian that now lives by the Spirit which does submit to God's law and can do so, not as a means to salvation, but because it is the new Spirit nature and not the old flesh nature.

[BavarianWheels]

Bav, since you quoted Romans, do you believe that Paul advocated that gentiles keep the sabbath?

You tell me. What are his words concerning the Commandments of God/God's Law?

[PaulSacramento]

Bav, since you quoted Romans, do you believe that Paul advocated that gentiles keep the sabbath?

You tell me. What are his words concerning the Commandments of God/God's Law?

Which ones?

[BavarianWheels]

Bav, since you quoted Romans, do you believe that Paul advocated that gentiles keep the sabbath?

You tell me. What are his words concerning the Commandments of God/God's Law?

Which ones?

Are you trying to play games with me? You know which ones, your question identifies it and is the title of this thread.

Edit: changed "them" to "it".

[PaulSacramento]

Bav, since you quoted Romans, do you believe that Paul advocated that gentiles keep the sabbath?

You tell me. What are his words concerning the Commandments of God/God's Law?

Which ones?

Are you trying to play games with me? You know which ones, your question identifies them and is the title of this thread.

Its a valid question.
You asked Paul's opinion in regards to God's commandments and I asked you which ones.
Circumcision? Paul was against it for gentiles.
Food restrictions? Paul was against them for gentiles ( Jesus made it clear they weren't for jews anymore either)
Observations of special days and festivals? Paul made it a personal conscience matter.
The Sabbath FALLS under the category of special day so if you have its stated where Paul says gentiles SHOULD keep the sabbath, please show me.
You will note that when Paul DOES mention commadments to keep that he does NOT mention the sabbath:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So it seems clear that Paul did NOT view the Sabbath as a commadment to be applied to Gentiles.
Unless of course you knwo of a verse where Paul EXPLICITLY states that ALL must keep the sabbath, do you?

[BavarianWheels]

So it seems clear that Paul did NOT view the Sabbath as a commadment to be applied to Gentiles.
Unless of course you knwo of a verse where Paul EXPLICITLY states that ALL must keep the sabbath, do you?

Again...you're playing games. You know exactly which commandment we are speaking of. There are many sabbaths...of years, of weeks, of days, but there is only one Sabbath of which God wrote with His own hand. THIS is within the Law that Paul expressly says to uphold and is holy righteous and true.

Now...you've been answered and I will refrain from answering anymore of your questions as it is obvious that you're simply playing games.
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[PaulSacramento]

So it seems clear that Paul did NOT view the Sabbath as a commadment to be applied to Gentiles.
Unless of course you knwo of a verse where Paul EXPLICITLY states that ALL must keep the sabbath, do you?

Again...you're playing games. You know exactly which commandment we are speaking of. There are many sabbaths...of years, of weeks, of days, but there is only one Sabbath of which God wrote with His own hand. THIS is within the Law that Paul expressly says to uphold and is holy righteous and true.

Now...you've been answered and I will refrain from answering anymore of your questions as it is obvious that you're simply playing games.
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Seems you may be the only one "playing games" or at least with a "I'm right you are wrong" attitude.
It has been shown that Paul DOES NOT state that the sabbath is to be kept by non-jews, it has been shown that he leaves special days for personal conscience decisions and when he does speak of commandments, he doesn't mention the sabbath.
No where do you find Paul advocating the keeping of the sabbath in explicit terms, unlike the OTHER commandments that you do find him saying to keep in explict terms.
Also, you keep saying "The law" buy the Torah has A LOT more than just the 10 commandments and you seem just fine to pick the ones YOU think all should keep and disregard the rest.
What you are keeping is NOT the law in terms of Jewish standards but the 10 commandments in accordance to what YOU thing they should be kept.
You can say I am playing games as much as you like, but that doesn't make it so.

[PaulSacramento]

Here is another view:
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/122.htm

One thing though, since the OT does NOT state what DAY to hold the Sabbath, other than the last day of the week ( work 6 and rest on the 7th), then those that work 6 days and rest on the 7th (In the west that would be working mon-sat and rest on Sun) are indeed keeping the sabbath anyways.

[BavarianWheels]

Here is another view:
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/122.htm

One thing though, since the OT does NOT state what DAY to hold the Sabbath, other than the last day of the week ( work 6 and rest on the 7th), then those that work 6 days and rest on the 7th (In the west that would be working mon-sat and rest on Sun) are indeed keeping the sabbath anyways.

I had to go against my word and refrain from refraining.

One word puts this to rest: Manna.
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[PaulSacramento]

Here is another view:
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/122.htm

One thing though, since the OT does NOT state what DAY to hold the Sabbath, other than the last day of the week ( work 6 and rest on the 7th), then those that work 6 days and rest on the 7th (In the west that would be working mon-sat and rest on Sun) are indeed keeping the sabbath anyways.

I had to go against my word and refrain from refraining.

One word puts this to rest: Manna.
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Look, I am trying to understand your POV, really I am, but I don't get it.
Manna? Christ is THE Manna from God.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here...

[Byblos]

One word puts this to rest: Manna.
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Look, I am trying to understand your POV, really I am, but I don't get it.
Manna? Christ is THE Manna from God.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here...

I believe the idea is that since the Israelites were able to gather manna on 6 days (the 6th day being a 2 day supply) and on the 7th day no manna was provided then that was the designated Sabbath day. But that only goes to prove God provided to the Israelites according to his commandments and not as a way to consecrate the Sabbath on any particular day.

[BavarianWheels]

Look, I am trying to understand your POV, really I am, but I don't get it.
Manna? Christ is THE Manna from God.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here...

First let me address this:

Seems you may be the only one "playing games" or at least with a "I'm right you are wrong" attitude.

Forgive me for this tone. I'm simply giving my stance and the reasoning behind it. If it comes off as "I'm right, you're wrong" then it is simply by the nature of a debate in that each one is presenting arguments for or against. I am not presenting this as "I'm right, you're wrong" but that this position is maybe more right than what the rest of the world thinks is right. Certainly keeping the Law (the 10) is not being promoted as a manner in which to gain salvation, we agree on this, but that as a matter of flesh vs. Spirit, flesh is not able by nature to submit to God's Law, but the Spirit, which lives (read; has eternal life) because of being innocent to the damnation the Law points at, does so by nature. This is all backed up by Paul in Romans...as I pointed out in previous posts. In short, Paul, in flesh is unable and unwilling to submit, but knows in hi inner being what is right. In contrast, Paul, by putting his faith in Christ is now dead and lives, not by flesh, but by the Spirt which leads him and if the Spirit submits to God's Law by nature, then we, who live according to the Spirit and not the flesh do so also...not for salvation as we already have gained salvation by grace through faith and not of works.

Now, you said;

Look, I am trying to understand your POV, really I am, but I don't get it.
Manna? Christ is THE Manna from God.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here...

Christ is the Manna from God which brings life...but that's not the context of the manna which I'm speaking of nor of the reason the manna was placed along inside the ark of the covenant.

Read Exodus 16:1-31.

In my non-SDA commentary, it reads concerning Exodus 16:

Sabbath. The first occurrence of the word itself, though the principle of the seventh day as a day of rest and holiness is set forth in the account of creation (see note on Ge 2:3)

Clearly I'm in line with the general interpretation of this text. God sent manna to feed His people and also to reinstate the Sabbath that had been forgotten all the years spent in Egypt.

[BavarianWheels]

So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. 25 "Eat it today," Moses said, "because today is a Sabbath to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today. 26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any."
EX 16:27 Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. 28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you* refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Just about word for word from the Commandment...there cannot be any mistaking.

[BavarianWheels]

For your reading pleasure:

The Sabbath Under Crossfire

Dr Bacchiocchi passed away a few years ago, but his newsletters are invaluable...well, to some, I suppose.
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