Yes, on that I agree because if how we act, how we interpret the bible and how we preach, pushes people away from God then WE become the stumbling block that Christ warned us not to be.1over137 wrote:Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.
My issue with religon
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PaulSacramento
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Re: My issue with religon
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RickD
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Re: My issue with religon
Hana, a stumbling block in the sense that PaulSacramento is using, is a bad thing. A stumbling block is something that hinders one from coming to Christ. We certainly don't want to be a stumbling block to unbelievers.1over137 wrote:Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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PaulSacramento
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Re: My issue with religon
Nothing in orthodox teaching SHOULD be a stumbling block BUT in my discussion with non-believers I have found that THEIR VIEW of "orthodox" teachings IS a stumbling block and what needs to be "fixed" is that view.
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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: My issue with religon
1over137 wrote:Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.
Hi Hana
I have been thinking and praying deeply about what you said and your right, what me and others have said is not right and we should stop.
I will make a concerted effort to keep the conversation civil and not be so stubborn when it is pointed out that I have said the wrong thing.
On this same point I think the Mod's really need to moderate some of the visitors here as their posts can be very disrespectful and rude which in turn can draw out a nasty response ( not saying that it is an excuse ).
Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: My issue with religon
A friendly reminder: The Bible is a stumbling block to unbelievers. Eliminate the offending passages and unbelievers will love it. You could eliminate most of the OT, most of the NT and with a little luck, you could squeeze the Bible into the space of a few pages, ten at most.
I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.
FL
I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
+ + +
If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.
+ + +
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RickD
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Re: My issue with religon
Daniel, we all get emotional, and say things in the heat of an argument, from time to time. I can only speak for myself as a Mod, but I tend to give more leeway to some of the newer members. But, on the other hand, if I see something that crosses the line, I'll say something. One thing I've been learning, is to try to listen to the message someone is trying to get across, and not be focused so much on the tone, of the speaker. I find if I get hung up on the way someone says something, I tend to miss what the person is trying to say. It's a lot more difficult in person, when emotions are more apparent.Danieltwotwenty wrote:1over137 wrote:Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.
Hi Hana
I have been thinking and praying deeply about what you said and your right, what me and others have said is not right and we should stop.
I will make a concerted effort to keep the conversation civil and not be so stubborn when it is pointed out that I have said the wrong thing.
On this same point I think the Mod's really need to moderate some of the visitors here as their posts can be very disrespectful and rude which in turn can draw out a nasty response ( not saying that it is an excuse ).
Dan
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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1over137
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Re: My issue with religon
@Dan
May I hug you?
@FL
Sure, we should show the Bible in its fullness.
May I hug you?
@FL
Sure, we should show the Bible in its fullness.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: My issue with religon
1over137 wrote:@Dan
May I hug you?
@FL
Sure, we should show the Bible in its fullness.
Sure
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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1over137
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Re: My issue with religon
Danieltwotwenty wrote: Sure
What a nice start of the day. 
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
#foreverinmyheart
-
RickD
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Re: My issue with religon
A nice hug, sure beats choking on a grape, any day.1over137 wrote:Danieltwotwenty wrote: Sure
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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PaulSacramento
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Re: My issue with religon
Like I said above, nothing in Orthodox teachings SHOULD be a stumbling block when properly explained.Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:A friendly reminder: The Bible is a stumbling block to unbelievers. Eliminate the offending passages and unbelievers will love it. You could eliminate most of the OT, most of the NT and with a little luck, you could squeeze the Bible into the space of a few pages, ten at most.
I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.
FL
Like it or not, we ALL interpret the bible, even in Jesus' time the bible was interpreted differently between the various groups ( Pharisees, Saudacess, Essences, Zelots,etc).
The bible is infallible, interpretations of it are not.
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Bradigans
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Re: My issue with religon
Well what do you think about what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 2:16?PaulSacramento wrote:It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.1over137 wrote:I read it two years or so ago. I have the book at my mother-in-law home. I can take it to my home.PaulSacramento wrote:Has anyone here read "The reason for God" by Tim Keller?
It goes into the very issues that so many do have with religion ( and Christianity in particular), including does that WERE Christians.
- 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 - For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
The unsaved are their own stumblingblock because of their dullness to hear (Matthew 13:15, Acts 28:27)... Most skeptics are looking for a cop out or excuse to live in sin. But a cop out or excuse won't keep any of us from going to hell because God has sent as a FREE gift HIS only begotten SON to pay a sin debt for you and for me (Ephesians 2:8,9).
IN CHRIST
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Bradigans
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Re: My issue with religon
I agree. People think that the problem believing in a God is in the mentality. They say that they have mental blocks (Ephesians 4:17,18). The real block is not in the mind but in the unregenerates heart. Hearts aren't converted (John 3:3, John 3:6). John 4:24 says - God is a Spirit. HIS Spirit can only be discerned by and through faith (Hebrews 11:1). God cannot be discerned with physical discerning senses or intellect. HE must be discerned by a spiritual discerning sense called faith (Hebrews 11:6). The questions is, have we been born again according to John 3:3 and John 3:6 where we can sense our heavenly father if HE is indeed our heavenly father?1over137 wrote:Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.
IN CHRIST
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Bradigans
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Re: My issue with religon
I believe that when THE WORD speaks of being a stumbling block, it is in regard to a immature brother or sister in Christ (Romans 14:13).PaulSacramento wrote:Yes, on that I agree because if how we act, how we interpret the bible and how we preach, pushes people away from God then WE become the stumbling block that Christ warned us not to be.1over137 wrote:Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.
-
Bradigans
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Re: My issue with religon
Amen..Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:A friendly reminder: The Bible is a stumbling block to unbelievers. Eliminate the offending passages and unbelievers will love it. You could eliminate most of the OT, most of the NT and with a little luck, you could squeeze the Bible into the space of a few pages, ten at most.
I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.
FL