The Beloved Disciple ?

[PaulSacramento]

But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “ Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then He *said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

Paul did you ever for no rhyme or reason address your mother as woman - twinc

Only when I wanted to get a rap on the mouth, LOL !
He also addressed her as such during the wedding in Caanae.
Your point?

[twinc]

THIS IS WHAT CONSTANTLY HAPPENS - only a little is grasped or only the small picture seen instead of the total - Jesus did not just address his mother as woman but also added "what is it to do with me for my time has not yet come" - now you would first have to see,know or be told about the whole picture and grasp it before you would accept what I would have to try and explain in a few words - Christianity is about the lives and times of the first Adam and Eve and the second Adam and Eve - tell me you grasp this and see it and accept it and then I might try and show you the whole picture as I see and hope you might too - twinc

[RickD]

THIS IS WHAT CONSTANTLY HAPPENS - only a little is grasped or only the small picture seen instead of the total - Jesus did not just address his mother as woman but also added "what is it to do with me for my time has not yet come" - now you would first have to see,know or be told about the whole picture and grasp it before you would accept what I would have to try and explain in a few words - Christianity is about the lives and times of the first Adam and Eve and the second Adam and Eve - tell me you grasp this and see it and accept it and then I might try and show you the whole picture as I see and hope you might too - twinc

OK, twinc. Where does the bible mention a second Eve?

[Icthus]

But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “ Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then He *said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

Paul did you ever for no rhyme or reason address your mother as woman - twinc

Only when I wanted to get a rap on the mouth, LOL !
He also addressed her as such during the wedding in Caanae.
Your point?

I'm certainly no expert, but wouldn't addressing her as "woman" be fairly normal in context? As an adult male well past the age of maturity and no longer living under his parents' house speaking to his mother, it wouldn't have been viewed as disrespectful at the time, would it? In any case, it isn't in any way analogous to the way it would be used today, as in "woman, make me a sandwich," or "shut up, woman," where the refusal to use a name or title other than "woman" is meant to be degrading (not that being a woman is bad, of course).

[Callisto]

In the Gospel of John only ONE person is called "the disciple whom you love" and that is Lazarus.
That the Gospel is attributed to John doesn't mean it was John, son of Zebedee and Brother of James BUT most scholars agree that it was at least ATTRIBUTED to him by the early church fathers.
Of course the GOJ, letters of John and Revelation of John are NOT all written the same way, most believe the 1John and the GOJ are the same writer, while 2 and 3John are a different one and that John of Patmos was NOT John Bar Zebedee.
Writing styles and all that, but the truth is we don't know for sure.
IMO, the GOJ is one of the most beautifully written works and that goes for 1John also.
Because so much in the GOJ takes place in and around Jerusalem, some do think that the GOJ was collaboration between the beloved disciple ( whomever that may be) and John Bar Zebedee and edited into its final format by Johns disciples after his death.

I was always under the impression that John the son of Zebedee was in fact the same John exiled to Patmos. Otherwise who was he, that he would be exiled to an island and given a vision like the one in Revelation? That is a pretty impressive vision for someone who never knew or "saw" Jesus personally. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it would be quite odd.

[PaulSacramento]

But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “ Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then He *said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

Paul did you ever for no rhyme or reason address your mother as woman - twinc

Only when I wanted to get a rap on the mouth, LOL !
He also addressed her as such during the wedding in Caanae.
Your point?

I'm certainly no expert, but wouldn't addressing her as "woman" be fairly normal in context? As an adult male well past the age of maturity and no longer living under his parents' house speaking to his mother, it wouldn't have been viewed as disrespectful at the time, would it? In any case, it isn't in any way analogous to the way it would be used today, as in "woman, make me a sandwich," or "shut up, woman," where the refusal to use a name or title other than "woman" is meant to be degrading (not that being a woman is bad, of course).

There was nothing disrespectful in the way Jesus spoke to his mother.

[PaulSacramento]

In the Gospel of John only ONE person is called "the disciple whom you love" and that is Lazarus.
That the Gospel is attributed to John doesn't mean it was John, son of Zebedee and Brother of James BUT most scholars agree that it was at least ATTRIBUTED to him by the early church fathers.
Of course the GOJ, letters of John and Revelation of John are NOT all written the same way, most believe the 1John and the GOJ are the same writer, while 2 and 3John are a different one and that John of Patmos was NOT John Bar Zebedee.
Writing styles and all that, but the truth is we don't know for sure.
IMO, the GOJ is one of the most beautifully written works and that goes for 1John also.
Because so much in the GOJ takes place in and around Jerusalem, some do think that the GOJ was collaboration between the beloved disciple ( whomever that may be) and John Bar Zebedee and edited into its final format by Johns disciples after his death.

I was always under the impression that John the son of Zebedee was in fact the same John exiled to Patmos. Otherwise who was he, that he would be exiled to an island and given a vision like the one in Revelation? That is a pretty impressive vision for someone who never knew or "saw" Jesus personally. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it would be quite odd.

Most scholars tend to think that the writer of GOJ and 1John are the same person, that 2 and 3John are from someone else ( The Elder) and that Revelation's John of Patmos is NOT the same writer of GOJ because of literary style.
They (John of Patmos and the writer of GOJ) use different syntax and have a different writing style, even some of the words they use for the same events/things are different.
That said, traditionally, the church has viewed that John was the same writer of the GOJ, Revelation and the 3 letters.

[Canuckster1127]

John was old when Revelation was written and probably done by a scribe.

[PaulSacramento]

John was old when Revelation was written and probably done by a scribe.

There is also the issue that Revelation was a very powerful image and that John would quite correctly not use the same type of writitng and. like you said, his advanced age would probably make it more feesible to use an "aide" or at least his writing style COULD have changed.
Though some date Revelation to BEFORE GOJ, even if that was the case it doesn't mean that the GOJ was done after, it could have been written before and released after John's death.
Fact is that we will never know for sure one way or another, though it is fun to speculate

[twinc]

THIS IS WHAT CONSTANTLY HAPPENS - only a little is grasped or only the small picture seen instead of the total - Jesus did not just address his mother as woman but also added "what is it to do with me for my time has not yet come" - now you would first have to see,know or be told about the whole picture and grasp it before you would accept what I would have to try and explain in a few words - Christianity is about the lives and times of the first Adam and Eve and the second Adam and Eve - tell me you grasp this and see it and accept it and then I might try and show you the whole picture as I see and hope you might too - twinc

OK, twinc. Where does the bible mention a second Eve?

okay - would you Adam and Eve it - you cant have one with out the other - in the beginning created He them male and female for it is not good for man to be alone - where in the Bible does it mention that the first or second Adam used the toilet - would it be correct to accept that they did or did not ? - twinc

[Byblos]

okay - would you Adam and Eve it - you cant have one with out the other - in the beginning created He them male and female for it is not good for man to be alone - where in the Bible does it mention that the first or second Adam used the toilet - would it be correct to accept that they did or did not ? - twinc

That made no sense at all twinc, please restate it or clarify what you mean instead of just leaving us guessing. Are you referring to the 2nd Eve as pertaining to Mary, for example?

[twinc]

coconspirators in the drama of the Fall and redemption - by His blood we are redeemed,same blood as Mary presumably - twinc

[Byblos]

coconspirators in the drama of the Fall and redemption - by His blood we are redeemed,same blood as Mary presumably - twinc

Twinc, I am still having a hard times understanding what you're getting at but I think I may be getting closer. Are you referring to the fact that Mary is at times referred as co-redemptrix? If that is the case I'm afraid you've taken it too far because the term most certainly does NOT make her co-equal. It is only meant in the sense that she brings redemption through her son, not through her. In any case, this is way off topic anyway so let's just stay on topic please.

[twinc]

coconspirators in the drama of the Fall and redemption - by His blood we are redeemed,same blood as Mary presumably - twinc

Twinc, I am still having a hard times understanding what you're getting at but I think I may be getting closer. Are you referring to the fact that Mary is at times referred as co-redemptrix? If that is the case I'm afraid you've taken it too far because the term most certainly does NOT make her co-equal. It is only meant in the sense that she brings redemption through her son, not through her. In any case, this is way off topic anyway so let's just stay on topic please.

ok - so back on topic - I have to be very careful here it seems so lets try and feed it in gently - knowing how strict the scribes and pharisees were with least sniff of adultery etc to accept that it would be okay for a young single John to take a comparitively young single Mary to his home without it being a scandal of the first magnitude or that Jesus was mentally deranged on the cross in what He obviously set and meant - this must be read in conjunction with my topic "Did some Jews and early Christians accept reincarnation" - twinc

[Byblos]

ok - so back on topic - I have to be very careful here it seems so lets try and feed it in gently - knowing how strict the scribes and pharisees were with least sniff of adultery etc to accept that it would be okay for a young single John to take a comparitively young single Mary to his home without it being a scandal of the first magnitude or that Jesus was mentally deranged on the cross in what He obviously set and meant - this must be read in conjunction with my topic "Did some Jews and early Christians accept reincarnation" - twinc

Okay so go ahead, keep going (PLEASE!).