Does God have free will?

[ultimate777]

If I heard him right, in a conversation with me, my pastor said God cannot choose to do wrong.

Is this true, and if so, does God have free will?

[Philip]

It is impossible for God to act outside of His holy nature or will, as God simply IS. That is why He is the unchangeable and "Great I Am." Who and all that God is forever remains unchangeable. His decisions all flow from what is inside of Him that makes Him God. But, also, God's perfect and holy will means that He will ALWAYS choose to act within the parameters of His holiness. As God is totally sovereign in all things, then He also must have free will. There is no PRIOR knowledge that God has ever had - meaning that there is NOTHING that has ever existed, or happened, or that He would one day create, or ANY action He would one day take, that He hasn't ALWAYS known about. There has never been a time SEQUENCE to God's knowledge. All that could ever be known of all past, present and future things, God has ALWAYS known. And any constraints that He might have would have to be imposed from outside of Himself - which would also mean His sovereignty would not be total - which is impossible. But all that exists and all that was created originated from God. God's ability is to do as He wishes (His free will), and the unchangeable aspect of the drive of His will means that it is both unchangeable and always Holy.

[jlay]

The problem here is likely one of semantics, and the pastor could have worded it better.

It is kind of like asking, 'can a circle be square?' It is simply not in the cirlce's nature to be square. And if it were, it wouldn't be a square.

Although I doubt this was the pastor's intent, it could appear (at least as you took it) that in an effort to exhault God's good nature, the statement actually impunes God's 'ability' by saying He, "can't." In, this case limiting God's will. God obviously has a will, and it is free in the sense that He freely acts within His will. But that certainly doesn't mean that God is 'choosing' to act one way over another. God is not a contingent being that he is "choosing" anything, weighing the pros and cons, and then hoping for the best. If God 'chooses' in this way, then there is a higher power that is able to set choices before Him. Or God is arbitrary.

So, it is true, God cannot choose to do wrong. Because 'wrong' is not a choice for God.

Interestingly this is actually an objection to the many Lapsarian issues relating to predestination and election. Because they all rely on God's "choosing" to be sequential, and thus makes God's decisions contingent and arbitrary. But that is most definately another thread.

[BryanH]

It is impossible for God

Really?

[Byblos]

It is impossible for God

Really?

Yes, really. What seems to be your misunderstanding?

[PaulSacramento]

Not being able to do or be what CAN't BE is not a restriction of free will.
I can't fly like superman, as much as I try to will it to be so.
That doesn't mean I don't have free will.
God choose to NOT do anything outside what God is, that God by the virtue of being God can't do anything wrong is NOT a statement of limitation but a statement of God's divine nature.

[BryanH]

Yes, really. What seems to be your misunderstanding?

None at all. It was rethorical... You don't have enough knowledge about God to know what is impossible for him or not... end of story.

All anyone has about God are mere assumptions, nothing more.

God choose to NOT do anything outside what God is, that God by the virtue of being God can't do anything wrong is NOT a statement of limitation but a statement of God's divine nature.

Same problem as above: you make some assumptions about God which you can't verify.
And of course the obvious: you have no idea what so ever about what choices God makes.

[Danieltwotwenty]

You don't have enough knowledge about God to know what is impossible for him or not... end of story.

The nature of God has been revealed through his living word.

[PaulSacramento]

Yes, really. What seems to be your misunderstanding?

None at all. It was rethorical... You don't have enough knowledge about God to know what is impossible for him or not... end of story.

All anyone has about God are mere assumptions, nothing more.

God choose to NOT do anything outside what God is, that God by the virtue of being God can't do anything wrong is NOT a statement of limitation but a statement of God's divine nature.

Same problem as above: you make some assumptions about God which you can't verify.
And of course the obvious: you have no idea what so ever about what choices God makes.

We are made in the image of God, God wants us to KNOW him, which means we are capable of knowing him ( to our limited degree of course).
To say that we are incapable of knowing ANYTHING about God may be a valid statement, but it doesn't make it a correct one.

Of course we are free to disagree

There is of course no way to prove that we know ANYTHING about God and no way to PROVE there even is a God.
Based on THAT view, why even bother trying?

[BryanH]

Based on THAT view, why even bother trying?

Some said that it is impossible for men to fly, but the Wright brothers proved us wrong.

That is why trying is important.

[PaulSacramento]

Based on THAT view, why even bother trying?

Some said that it is impossible for men to fly, but the Wright brothers proved us wrong.

That is why trying is important.

I agree, 100%.
Better to try to understand God and fail than to succeed at anything else.

[BryanH]

Better to try to understand God and fail than to succeed at anything else.

Why would it better to fail trying to understand God than to succeed at anything else?

Your statement is quite weird from my point of view and I will explain why.

This is just an example:

===> It would be better in failing to understand God than to succed in proving that he doesn't exist.

My example might be a little forced, but you got the point.

I mean, you are basically saying that you would prefer living in a lie or that you would prefer failure rather than success.

Maybe I got it wrong...

[Byblos]

Yes, really. What seems to be your misunderstanding?

None at all. It was rethorical... You don't have enough knowledge about God to know what is impossible for him or not... end of story.

All anyone has about God are mere assumptions, nothing more.

And yet again, you are dead wrong. We may not know everything about God (for to do so we'd have to be Him) but contrary to what you think, we do know quite a lot about God and no they are not mere assumptions. Read the links I provided.

God choose to NOT do anything outside what God is, that God by the virtue of being God can't do anything wrong is NOT a statement of limitation but a statement of God's divine nature.

Same problem as above: you make some assumptions about God which you can't verify.
And of course the obvious: you have no idea what so ever about what choices God makes.

In an odd way I might have to agree with you on that, if for nothing else that we already know that God most certainly does NOT make choices, as if He needs to react to certain events before making up His mind. Please read my links before making any more unsubstantiated assertions.

[BryanH]

God most certainly does NOT make choices

Actually that can be proved wrong...

God chose to create an universe... God chose to create us in his image... God chose a "chosen people" (wording is marvelous: the chosen people of God)... God chose to send Jesus etc etc etc

Since God is within the universe frame and outside of it, he could have just stayed outside of it, but he chose to create an universe and guide people within the frame.

And yet again, you are dead wrong. We may not know everything about God (for to do so we'd have to be Him) but contrary to what you think, we do know quite a lot about God and no they are not mere assumptions. Read the links I provided.

Actually you do not know anything about God. You just assume that some "things" (creation of the universe, Jesus, Bible) are coming from him and you attribute those to him.

In terms of actually knowing something about God = ZERO.

I already told you: Thomas Aquinas just attributes some things to God without actually knowing that God did that.

[RickD]

BryanH wrote:

In terms of actually knowing something about God = ZERO.

Bryan, in order for any being to be God, he would have to be eternally existent, and the creator of the universe. Otherwise he wouldn't be God, and wouldn't be worthy of our worship. Now, to say this eternal, creator God, is consistent with the God of the bible...well, that could be discussed.