Politics

August · Post by **August** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:53 pm

Do the OT laws universally apply?

If you can't back up your assertion that the OT laws don't apply, just say so. I'm not going to play silly games with you.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:09 pm

kateliz wrote:At least nominally. Not all of them are, and I didn't intend to give out percentages.

President Bush goes to church weekly, reads the Bible daily, and prays everyday by himself and with his Cabinet. Congress prays to God everyday before starting work. They're probably stronger Christians than you.

kateliz wrote: Then it shows you they're concerned more about what they believe is truth than their own lives and welfare..

They want to get rid of something that protects us.

kateliz wrote: As do I.
..

Then, support enforcing the laws that are already on the books instead of making new laws that'll cost more money and expand our already overenlarged bureaucracy.

kateliz wrote: They weren't innocent gun owners. They were not deceived, I'm pretty sure, into believing that they got them legally. ..

You have to pass a background check and be at least 18 to legally buy a firearm. You also have to pass training before obtaining a permit. The two boys didn't fit those qualifications, and the sellers didn't do the required steps, which is why the government was investigating them.

kateliz wrote: Those guys would have known what was going on. And I don't plan on punishing the innocent, only protecting them. And if they got them illegally than that says that we need more gun control! ..

Which is why we need to enforce the current laws, which are sufficient, and punish violators.

kateliz wrote: So we should make WMD legal for your average Joe because the weapon doesn't have a brain?..

Which is why we only allow regular firearms to be purchased and owned.
If we go by your reasoning, we should ban or severely restrict the selling of kitchen knives and bathtubs.

kateliz wrote: No, so you've just proven my point. If they can obtain them even illegally, we need more control...

Sounds like you missed the point. Criminals obtain guns illegally, not legally. Gun control only refers to legal buyers.

kateliz wrote: Where did you get that and what do you mean by it?

You want stricter gun control, but you can't elaborate what that would entail.

You seem to want many liberal changes in society and in the Church, but you can't explain what you mean.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:21 pm

I put in a "

" and my post, which wasn't highlighted, all got deleted! It has done that exact same thing to me before. It doesn't make sense.

ochotseat wrote:They're probably stronger Christians than you.

That is an assumption you cannot make.

ochotseat wrote:kateliz wrote:
Then it shows you they're concerned more about what they believe is truth than their own lives and welfare..

ochotseat wrote:
They want to get rid of something that protects us.

Point proven.

ochotseat wrote:Gun control only refers to legal buyers.

See, this is where we've had big misunderstandings in our debate! I believe gun control refers to the controling of guns, legally bought and sold or not.

ochotseat wrote:You want stricter gun control, but you can't elaborate what that would entail.

Enforcing current laws and locking up guns you keep in your house.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:59 pm

kateliz wrote:See, this is where we've had big misunderstandings in our debate! I believe gun control refers to the controling of guns, legally bought and sold or not.

But see, gun control laws only deal with legal gun buys. If Liberal State X only allows .177 BB guns, a criminal could laugh his rear off and purchase himself an illegal .45 ACP Mac-10. Gun control laws, outside of "Don't shoot other people without a legal reason" only hamper lawful gun buyers/owners.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:12 pm

Forge wrote:Gun control laws, outside of "Don't shoot other people without a legal reason" only hamper lawful gun buyers/owners.

You opened a pretty big door with that statement! By this you'd agree that anyone could own a gun of any sort and use it however they want as long as they don't unlawfully kill someone. You are well aware of the need for further precautions.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:39 pm

kateliz wrote: That is an assumption you cannot make.
.

So you practice your faith more than they do?
You said you're even against denominations. Did you not also say that you don't go to church on Sundays, because you don't want to wake up in the morning?

kateliz wrote: Enforcing current laws and locking up guns you keep in your house.

You said you wanted greater gun control through more laws. Now, you're saying you want to enforce current laws, which I've been saying all along.
The problem does not lie in a lack of laws; it lies in enforcing those laws.

Criminals don't usually legally buy guns, so they don't care about gun control laws.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:48 am

ochotseat wrote:
So Christians should ignore the OT completely?

Are you purposefully being stupid or is it an accident? Where did I say that?

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:52 am

August wrote:
Do the OT laws universally apply?
If you can't back up your assertion that the OT laws don't apply, just say so. I'm not going to play silly games with you.

August August August you should know better than this...

First of all, the OT laws were given to the JEWS. This country isn't jewish and neither am I. Second of all, the OT laws do not apply anyway because Jesus fulfilled them. For more info about that I suggest you read the discussion we had on it when those who think they still apply got a good trashing:

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... ht=sabbath

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:20 am

we as citizens, must respect our laws, or did you not know that?

i know that. i just don't care!

August · Post by **August** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:05 am

August August August you should know better than this...

I do.

First of all, the OT laws were given to the JEWS. This country isn't jewish and neither am I. Second of all, the OT laws do not apply anyway because Jesus fulfilled them.

This is getting way off-topic, I will start a new thread on this.

For more info about that I suggest you read the discussion we had on it when those who think they still apply got a good trashing:

That has nothing to do with me.

August · Post by **August** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:36 pm

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 2372#12372

Over here.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:33 pm

kateliz wrote:You opened a pretty big door with that statement! By this you'd agree that anyone could own a gun of any sort and use it however they want as long as they don't unlawfully kill someone. You are well aware of the need for further precautions.

Not just killing, but unlawful usage period.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:30 pm

August wrote: That has nothing to do with me.

*sigh* Yes, it does. I want you to read that before we get deep into this. I hate having to write the same thing over and over and over.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:01 pm

Mastermind wrote: purposefully being stupid

Try not to be next time, okay?

Mastermind wrote: Where did I say that?

First of all, the OT laws were given to the JEWS. This country isn't jewish and neither am I.

About two percent of this country's Jewish, and not every American is a Christian, so our laws shouldn't just be geared toward Christians.
You're suggesting that the OT laws have no significance today, but they do. Some of them have moral fiber, which we can learn from.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:03 pm

Prodigal Son wrote: i know that. i just don't care!

So you don't care about God's laws?

Evidence for God from Science

Politics

What's your political ideology?