European Union

[bizzt]

I was reading one of the Question and Answers on http://www.jvim.com

What do you think of this

Is the European Union looking into having a president on a permanent basis?

Dennis P. Wilson Jr.

The European Union all of these years has had a president on a rotating basis, and each one from individual European community countries only served for six months. Well one can't accomplish much in a six month period. So now they are looking for a permanent president so that he can handle the affairs of the day as they create a larger European Union. They want to go up to 130 to 200 nations and then divide it into a grouping of 10, just like the Bible predicts. This one will come out of the European Union and it comes to power on a peace platform. And, how do I know it is the European Union? Daniel 9:26 say's he is of the people that destroyed the city of Jerusalem and the Temple. That was Vespatian and his son, Titus - Roman Generals in 70 AD and Vespatian became the Emperor of the Roman Empire after Nero. And what does this leader do - he confirms the peace for seven years, as I said a little bit ago and then it's broken as Russia, China and the world comes down. But they do need such a leader to lead the people, and Spaak said, “give us such a man, be it God or the devil, and we'll accept him.”

[TL]

Wrong forum I guess?

[bizzt]

Wrong forum I guess?

yep! Definately no one interested in this Topic. However at the time I found it interesting

[kateliz]

Scary is more like it! I didn't reply before because... well I forgot.

I still like the idea of the Antichrist coming from the eastern leg of the former Roman Empire, (keeping my eyes on Jordan,) but a leader of many powerful European countries, (which countries are in it again?) is still a scary thought. So's the thought of popes, (please no offense, I just mean a person with such power,) and... what's Kofi Annon's position in the UN called again? You'd think I was stupid because of the things I forget! In fact, any large unification measure makes me nervous because it's only setting the stage for the Antichrist. Part of why I don't like the ecumenical movement, as discussed in another thread.

Ya know, one moment I'm nervous about preparations for the Antichrist and the next I'm excited for things to get going! Think I'm a little more nervous right now though because of that article.

[ochotseat]

Scary is more like it! I didn't reply before because... well I forgot.
I still like the idea of the Antichrist coming from the eastern leg of the former Roman Empire, (keeping my eyes on Jordan,)
.

You consider Jordan a bigger threat than Iran?

So's the thought of popes, (please no offense, I just mean a person with such power,)
.

Don't use the term then. The Pope has no governmental powers.

In fact, any large unification measure makes me nervous because it's only setting the stage for the Antichrist. Part of why I don't like the ecumenical movement, as discussed in another thread.
.

So you find the UN, WTO, World Bank, and NATO to be uncomfortable threats?

Ya know, one moment I'm nervous about preparations for the Antichrist and the next I'm excited for things to get going! Think I'm a little more nervous right now though because of that article.

The Bible says we shouldn't try to specifically guess the exact time Christ will return to the world.

[LittleShepherd]

You consider Jordan a bigger threat than Iran?

She's talking about the antichrist possibly coming from Jordan, not about Jordan being a more dangerous military power than Iran. Two totally separate things.

Don't use the term then. The Pope has no governmental powers.

I don't think she was talking about governmental power at all. I think her fear was that the Pope has such widespread <B>religious</B> power, and that any man with such widespread influence is a scary thing.

So you find the UN, WTO, World Bank, and NATO to be uncomfortable threats?

I don't know Kate's answer, but mine's yes. Anything setting the stage for a one-world government or one-world economy is both scary and exciting at the same time.

The Bible says we shouldn't try to specifically guess the exact time Christ will return to the world.

Yes, but it also states that Christians should continually look forward to it! In fact, there's a <B>crown</B> to be rewarded to those of us who do. We can't know the exact time, but the more prophecies that are fulfilled, the greater our anticipation of Christ's return should be.

[ochotseat]

She's talking about the antichrist possibly coming from Jordan, not about Jordan being a more dangerous military power than Iran. Two totally separate things. ?

Wouldn't the anti-Christ arise from a strong state? What makes you think Jordan's a bigger biblical threat than Iran is?

I don't think she was talking about governmental power at all. I think her fear was that the Pope has such widespread <B>religious</B> power, and that any man with such widespread influence is a scary thing.

Many Catholics don't take the Pope completely seriously, so that's a groundless fear.

I don't know Kate's answer, but mine's yes. Anything setting the stage for a one-world government or one-world economy is both scary and exciting at the same time.

Those organizations haven't threatened sovereignty to that point.

Yes, but it also states that Christians should continually look forward to it!

I didn't say otherwise. By trying to pinpoint exactly when Christ is returning, we'll overlook his other messages.

[Mastermind]

For how long have people believed the Pope is the antichrist? Did it start with Calvin or was it earlier?

[ochotseat]

For how long have people believed the Pope is the antichrist? Did it start with Calvin or was it earlier?

Some people have always been leery of the papacy even before the Protestant Reformation.
These fears are now unfounded, because we have separation of church and state as we should.

[LittleShepherd]

Wouldn't the anti-Christ arise from a strong state?

That's not even implied in Scripture. He will gain power, but his beginnings are mostly a mystery. That's why it's speculation. Kate never claimed it was anything else.

Many Catholics don't take the Pope completely seriously, so that's a groundless fear.

Most do take the Pope seriously. Even many noncatholics(and nonreligious people altogether) take the Pope seriously. He is one man with a lot of power. Again, the issue was people with what some might perceive as "too much power" in their sphere. Many people with religious views(and even many without) could consider the Pope such a person.

Also, while Kate was speaking on his influence in religious circles, you're blind if you claim the Pope has no governmental power. Do you have any idea how many government leaders have met with the Pope at some time or other? How many have asked for his advice and opinions on various matters? How many registered voters have looked into the Pope's views on various issues? No governmental powers...yeah, right. They might not be overt, but they're there. It's a position with a lot of power, no matter which way you look at it.

Those organizations haven't threatened sovereignty to that point.

Well, duh. Thus the term "setting the stage." Also, you forget that Bible prophecy refers to <B>future</B> events, not present. What they <B>have currently done</B> has no bearing on what they <B>will cause to happen,</B> directly or indirectly. While the UN, World Bank, etc. might not be the eventually organizations that do fill the roles set forth in Revelations, some organization(s) will eventually rise and succeed in the goals of one-world currency and one-world government. In a very real way, these organizations are "setting the stage" for those future events.

I didn't say otherwise. By trying to pinpoint exactly when Christ is returning, we'll overlook his other messages.

And Kate(or anyone else in this topic) never tried to pinpoint the exact time. She simply mentioned that certain current events have filled her with anticipation, some anxiety, and excietement. You're the one who took it one step further than she even implied. Again, I repeat -- <B>Nobody tried to pinpoint the exact time of Christ's return here.</B>

[ochotseat]

That's not even implied in Scripture. He will gain power, but his beginnings are mostly a mystery. That's why it's speculation. Kate never claimed it was anything else.

To suggest the Pope may be the anti-Christ is ridiculous. The end of times may be near according to some ministers, but we still have a way to go.

Most do take the Pope seriously. Even many noncatholics(and nonreligious people altogether) take the Pope seriously. He is one man with a lot of power. Again, the issue was people with what some might perceive as "too much power" in their sphere. Many people with religious views(and even many without) could consider the Pope such a person.

Is that why many Catholics ignore or disagree with the papacy's stance on abortion, premarital sex, contraception, death penalty, gay priests, allowing women to be priests, etc.?

Also, while Kate was speaking on his influence in religious circles, you're blind if you claim the Pope has no governmental power. Do you have any idea how many government leaders have met with the Pope at some time or other? How many have asked for his advice and opinions on various matters? How many registered voters have looked into the Pope's views on various issues? No governmental powers...yeah, right. They might not be overt, but they're there. It's a position with a lot of power, no matter which way you look at it.

They seek his advice, but they don't allow him to make their decisions. If so, Cuba would now be free, since Castro's had several meetings with the late Pope Jean Paul II.
If the papacy declares a Crusade today, will most Christians listen? Probably not. In fact, some Crusades didn't even take place in the past, because many medieval Christians disregarded the Pope's call for new Crusades. The Pope has a lot of symbolic power, but it shouldn't be inflated to the point of hysteria.
In developed countries, we have a thing called separation of church and state. I doubt most people will overlook that secular institution to return to the religious fanaticism of the Middle Ages.

While the UN, World Bank, etc. might not be the eventually organizations that do fill the roles set forth in Revelations, some organization(s) will eventually rise and succeed in the goals of one-world currency and one-world government. In a very real way, these organizations are "setting the stage" for those future events.
.

And you forget that I never said they were not the initial stages of the Apocalypse.

<B>Nobody tried to pinpoint the exact time of Christ's return here.</B>

Relax, bub.
Maybe not here, but some Christians do try to do that. We don't know when Christ is going to return. It might be in 50 years, or it might be in 500 years. The Bible foresaw the founding of Israel, dissolution of the Soviet Union, horrific epidemics, strange weather patterns, etc., but we must still witness the rise of the anti-Christ. I believe the televangelist Pastor Van Impe stated that there'll be a major disturbing change in Christendom which is happening in the West, specially in Europe where church attendance and religiousness are declining. But we don't know how far or fast the Church will "die" there if at all. Also, it's said that there'll be further chaos in the world, particularly in the Middle East, so we'll have to see what happens.

[LittleShepherd]

To suggest the Pope may be the anti-Christ is ridiculous.

Which is why nobody suggested it.

The end of times may be near according to some ministers, but we still have a way to go.

You have no way to know that.

Is that why many Catholics ignore or disagree with the papacy's stance on abortion, premarital sex, contraception, death penalty, gay priests, allowing women to be priests, etc.?

Like members of most religious faiths, the majority are lax in their practice. Surprise, surprise.

They seek his advice, but they don't allow him to make their decisions.

Having your advice be respected is pretty powerful stuff. As I said, the Pope's power isn't overt, but it's there. And it's widespread.

In developed countries, we have a thing called separation of church and state. I doubt most people will overlook that secular institution to return to the religious fanaticism of the Middle Ages.

Sadly, you're right. The only religion that seems to be gaining any fervor nowadays is Islam. But then that's not a surprise.

And you forget that I never said they were not the initial stages of the Apocalypse.

Then why mention that they're "not quite there yet" at all? Stating the obvious much.

Maybe not here, but some Christians do try to do that.

And again I must ask why you brought it up at all. Kate wasn't trying to do that. Nobody was trying to do that. Yet you said, <B>in response to Kate</B> that nobody should try to do...what nobody had actually tried to do.

The Bible foresaw the founding of Israel, dissolution of the Soviet Union, horrific epidemics, strange weather patterns, etc., but we must still witness the rise of the anti-Christ.

Says who? I don't know about you, but I plan to be out of here by the time the antichrist is revealed and signs his treaty with Israel. That is a post-Rapture event, after all.

I believe the televangelist Pastor Van Impe stated that there'll be a major disturbing change in Christendom which is happening in the West, specially in Europe where church attendance and religiousness are declining.

In other words, more of the same.

Also, it's said that there'll be further chaos in the world, particularly in the Middle East...

And ditto.

[kateliz]

The pope may be the false prophet; how about that?

[Dan]

The pope may be the false prophet; how about that?

The problem with prophets is that they claim to be prophets. Don't slander the Pope.

[bizzt]

The pope may be the false prophet; how about that?

Yeah Relax on that. The Papacy could be the ground where the False Prophet comes out of (and what a way mass influence the Billions of People in the World ). It does not mean the next Pope will be the False Prophet or this Pope will be! However I do believe IF all Christians are raptured beforehand then the GROUND will be laid for a Pope (False Prophet) to arise as there will be no TRUE Christians (at least when it happens) to contest it!