Bob Savage and the Anti-Christian world

[Tina]

Have you guys heard of Bob Savage? He went to speak to students about anti-bullying but instead started bashing Christianity. He was basically saying that Christians are bullying gays and that we should ignore the Bible about homosexuality just as we ignore it about slavery. I disagree.

On a side note, have you noticed more and more anti- Christian themes in the media lately? It's like every time I turn on the tv there's some show on saying something anti Christian or trying to make us look like terrible people. I'm really getting tired of people ( it seems like everyone ) twisting our beliefs around like that. And it seems like people are hating us mostly cuz of the homosexual thing. It's frustrating. It seems like nowadays people don't care about what is right or wrong, they just wanna do whatever the hell they wanna do and if you try to help them and warn them that they're goin down the wrong path, all of a sudden you become a hateful person that isn't "progressing" with society. It's ridiculous. And we can't say anything about what people are doing, but they can bash Christians up and down to the end of the universe. I really wish Jesus would come back and set things straight so we could be done with this. But I guess that's selfish because there are still children of GOD that haven't been born yet...

[amyjo5995]

I agree that they are trying to twist stuff around and make all Christians "haters". It's like-"if you don't conform, you must hate them". Like you said about "progressing" with society. I'm sorry, the way society is today, I don't want to "progress" with it. But, as far as gays go, just because I believe the lifestyle is a sin doesn't mean I hate the gay person. I've seen alot more hate coming from the gay community and their supporters towards people that don't "fall in" with their beliefs than I do from Christians. It's sad that people are more worried about stepping on someones toes than caring about right and wrong and whats in the Bible.

[Beanybag]

Dan Savage*. And you should take into consideration that a large (and vocal) group of Christians is very much hateful towards gays. You can't ignore the fact that there is a lot of hurt coming from them, who tend to be in a position of power or authority. In fact, it's very dishonest, I think, to say most of the hate comes from the gays. Most homeless youth are gay, they commit suicide at a much higher rate due to bullying and difficulties in acceptance, and there's many more examples of abuse.

I can also say he was honestly not trying to 'bully' Christians (sans the pansy comment), but offer them a way to be both Christian and accepting of gays. You can argue that accepting that the scripture is wrong makes you not as Christian or that they're trying to shove secular ethics into Christianity - most people's beliefs are an inconsistent mess though. If Christians could be more consistent in their loving and accepting nature of gays while offering them a venue or alternative to their frustrated and denied desires, then possibly I could see the support more. Instead, there's conversion camps (conversion doesn't work), unnaccepting families and communities, hate crime, etc.

As for going down the wrong path.. that would be your perspective. From the ethical standpoint of most in the west, it's entirely moral to be gay. I hold that it is a consistent and usable ethical system and it doesn't just let people 'do whatever they want' but I understand that there is an impasse. If you want progress, you need to both understand your own side and their side a little better. Dan Savage is a gay sex advice columnist and that's already very different. He wants to live in a world where you can both peacefully live together - it's a hard thing to do when you want to warn him of his sin and he wants to live his life without judgment. In general, though, I'd say preach less to those you don't know and stick with your friends, be concerned with learning about yourself and getting to understand your own faith a little more. Matthew 7:5 comes to mind.

From the point of view of the government, also, I don't see any way you can legally ban gay marriage. Jac has an interesting ethical stand point that would possibly allow for it, but it unfortunately is not the ethics that most people in this country use.

[RickD]

Beany, you have to remember, homosexual acts are sins that people(Christian and nonChristian alike), can see as a worse sin than other sins, so we can feel better about ourselves, and our own sin. Those who hold homosexual sin as a worse sin than another sin, may, without realizing it, do so, because they believe it makes their own sin seem not as bad. "I may cheat on my wife, or steal from my employer, but, at least I'm not gay, etc, etc."

From the point of view of the government, also, I don't see any way you can legally ban gay marriage.

I can see a secular govt. giving certain rights to homosexual unions, and polygamist unions. Let's just call those unions what they are, civil unions. Heterosexual unions can also be civil unions, because we don't want to discriminate against straights.
Let marriage be a religious union between one man, and one woman, in the eyes of God.

[amyjo5995]

I feel, in the long run, the Christian heterosexual couple is going to become the minority. Can we then cry discrimination? Why, as a Christian, should I be afraid to voice my beliefs when I am having their beliefs thrown in my face every time I turn around? I think it's pretty sad, what this world is coming to. I tolerate everyone, like one saying says "I don't care if you are white, black, pink, yellow, gay, straight, whatever. If you are nice to me, I am nice to you". But, there seem to be a lot of these groups, especially the gay and lesbian groups, that as soon as you say your a Christian, they put their hackles up, so to speak. Just my thoughts, anyway.

[RickD]

Amyjo, don't you know, all Christians are narrow-minded, bigots, and homophobes. Oh don't you know, don't you know...

Let's all sing along to the tune of Shooting Star by Bad Company.

Don't you know that you are a homo-phobe,

Don't you know, don't you know...

[Tina]

When I said warning them about the wrong path, I meant about all sins. Sins the media seems to promote and support such as promiscuity, lying, murder, etc. ( BTW I think a sin is a sin is a sin, so I dont see how homosexuality can make any other sin look any better)

As for Dan Savage, he had no right to say what he did to those high schoolers. Just cuz person #1 is mean to you does not give you the right to blame person #2. So just cuz some other Christians were mean to him does not give him the right to hate on all Christians. They would say the same thing to us if the situation was-- Just cuz some homosexuals are hateful to Christians doesn't give Christians the right to be hateful to all homosexuals

[RickD]

When I said warning them about the wrong path, I meant about all sins. Sins the media seems to promote and support such as promiscuity, lying, murder, etc. ( BTW I think a sin is a sin is a sin, so I dont see how homosexuality can make any other sin look any better)

Tina, in order to make themselves seem better to other people, some people focus on homosexual sin as being worse than some other sin. You know, "I may do such and such, but at least I'm not gay".