Trying to keep free will simple

[ultimate777]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

[Danieltwotwenty]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

No idea as we have never seen an actual human that does not sin.

The only "person" that comes close was Jesus, but he was also fully divine as well as fully human.

Dan

[PaulSacramento]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

Not sure what you mean...not every important decision involves a sin I think.
The decision to have kids is perhaps the most important one in a couples life, whichever way they decide I am not sure sin plays a part, no?
Well....maybe the sin of pride or vanity on second thought.
Humans, like any other being other than God, have always had the capacity to sin, by sin I mean KNOWING what is wrong and still doing it.
Of course, depending ones view/definition of sin...
I think that your question is, well...a bit odd and that might be because of how you worded it.
Care to expand a bit more please?

[ultimate777]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

No idea as we have never seen an actual human that does not sin.

The only "person" that comes close was Jesus, but he was also fully divine as well as fully human.

Dan

Yu ducked dodge and hid real good.

[ultimate777]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

Not sure what you mean...not every important decision involves a sin I think.
The decision to have kids is perhaps the most important one in a couples life, whichever way they decide I am not sure sin plays a part, no?
Well....maybe the sin of pride or vanity on second thought.
Humans, like any other being other than God, have always had the capacity to sin, by sin I mean KNOWING what is wrong and still doing it.
Of course, depending ones view/definition of sin...
I think that your question is, well...a bit odd and that might be because of how you worded it.
Care to expand a bit more please?

I tell you what Paul, I neglected this thread long timde and I don'gt know if you are even looking at it anymore. Ask again and I will do my best. Now I will even see if I can figure out a way to contact you off the board.

[Danieltwotwenty]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

No idea as we have never seen an actual human that does not sin.

The only "person" that comes close was Jesus, but he was also fully divine as well as fully human.

Dan

Yu ducked dodge and hid real good.

No dodging here mate, I simply do not know as I have never met one and as such I have no model to compare.

Anything I would say would be pure speculation and would be a complete waste of time for the lack of any solid proofs.

How about you ask a question we can answer instead.

Dan

[neo-x]

I have asked a question before. It did not go well. I think the problem may have been I made it too complicated. I will simplify it considerably and see how that works. If people are going to duck, dodge and hide they will duck, dodge and hide. I can't stop them, I can just hope they realize they are doing it.

If humans could not sin could they make any important decisions, or any decisions at all?

if you want a straight answer then ask a straight question buddy. Its not that the answer can not be given and anyone needs to duck and hide really, but that the question is wrong again (like your previous musings) to begin with.

let me break it down for you because I do not think you understand the contradiction you are creating.

"if humans could not sin"
This presumes

humans can sin OR
humans could sin
and based on the rest of your statement that
sin was a decision

and right after you ask, if they could not sin could they make any decision at all?

well the problem is sin is not an issue to begin with, your question ties it with the rest of human intellect and that is precisely where your question goes wrong. They could decide things since they were given free will, in fact the decision to sin was their own as well. So I do not get what you wanted me to point out here. Its plain obvious.

The contradiction is clear, if they could decide to sin they could decide pretty much anything even before they sinned since they decision to sin was made before they had actually sinned;

OR

if they COULD not decide to sin (in the sense that they lack any intellect to decide at all) well then, they could not decide anything as well, for sin is an action just like any other action.

So the question is self refuting because it admits in one half that humans could decide before sin, to sin; and then alludes later that without sin important decision making could not be possible/impossible, which is already demonstrated in the first half of the statement. Lol...was that so hard to understand?