Is the Christian God the same as the Islamic god?

[B. W.]

Thank you B.W. and Gman that was the point i was trying to convey. The fact that the God of christians is the same as of the hebrews and that the god of islam is not the same as our heavenly father. The hebrew people are our brothers and have not been forgotten by God. We must pray for them as we should pray for all our brethren around the world. It is also stated in scripture that God blesses those who bless Israel.

[RickD]

Thank you B.W. and Gman that was the point i was trying to convey. The fact that the God of christians is the same as of the hebrews and that the god of islam is not the same as our heavenly father. The hebrew people are our brothers and have not been forgotten by God. We must pray for them as we should pray for all our brethren around the world. It is also stated in scripture that God blesses those who bless Israel.

You guys are really making a good argument for the Jewish and Christian God being the same. Zionist, I couldn't help but wonder what you meant, when you said, "We must pray for them as we should pray for all our brethren around the world." I certainly don't pray for my Christian brothers and sisters, the same way I pray for those who aren't saved. Could you explain why you would pray for an unsaved Jew, the same way you would pray for a Christian brother? Or perhaps I'm reading it wrong, and when you said "brethren", you didn't mean Christian brethren.

[Gman]

Thank you B.W. and Gman that was the point i was trying to convey. The fact that the God of christians is the same as of the hebrews and that the god of islam is not the same as our heavenly father. The hebrew people are our brothers and have not been forgotten by God. We must pray for them as we should pray for all our brethren around the world. It is also stated in scripture that God blesses those who bless Israel.

Always a pleasure Zionist...

I think we can agree that Islam is most certainly not the Hebrew G-d. It is actually that spirit of Esau which is commissioned to hunt or destroy the descendants of spiritual Jacob. But that is another topic altogether.

[Zionist]

Thank you B.W. and Gman that was the point i was trying to convey. The fact that the God of christians is the same as of the hebrews and that the god of islam is not the same as our heavenly father. The hebrew people are our brothers and have not been forgotten by God. We must pray for them as we should pray for all our brethren around the world. It is also stated in scripture that God blesses those who bless Israel.

You guys are really making a good argument for the Jewish and Christian God being the same. Zionist, I couldn't help but wonder what you meant, when you said, "We must pray for them as we should pray for all our brethren around the world." I certainly don't pray for my Christian brothers and sisters, the same way I pray for those who aren't saved. Could you explain why you would pray for an unsaved Jew, the same way you would pray for a Christian brother? Or perhaps I'm reading it wrong, and when you said "brethren", you didn't mean Christian brethren.

we should always pray for the unsaved but i also feel it necessary to pray for all our brothers and when i said brethren i mean all our brothers and sisters christians and jews alike all one together in the eyes of God. one problem i have noticed within the body is that we are too separated and are not one just look at all the different denominations within. we seem to only pray for one another during trials and tribulations but we should always be diligent to pray for each other daily. the jewish people are our brothers too rick and we must pray for them as we would our christian brothers. God finds favor for those who bless Israel and stay diligent in prayer for her. Psalm 122:6-9.

[Zionist]

@ Gman
yup we can agree that the god of islam is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. there's just too much evidence out there if you take the time to do the research.

[RickD]

we should always pray for the unsaved but i also feel it necessary to pray for all our brothers and when i said brethren i mean all our brothers and sisters christians and jews alike all one together in the eyes of God. one problem i have noticed within the body is that we are too separated and are not one just look at all the different denominations within. we seem to only pray for one another during trials and tribulations but we should always be diligent to pray for each other daily. the jewish people are our brothers too rick and we must pray for them as we would our christian brothers. God finds favor for those who bless Israel and stay diligent in prayer for her. Psalm 122:6-9.

Maybe I see it a little differently, Zionist. I consider Anyone without faith in Christ, as an unbeliever, including Jews that don't have faith in Christ. And, I pray for unbelievers differently, than I pray for believers, for obvious reasons. Do you really think Jews don't need faith in Christ, for salvation? That's how I'm reading what you're saying. Please correct me if I'm not reading you correctly.
Thanks

[Gman]

Maybe I see it a little differently, Zionist. I consider Anyone without faith in Christ, as an unbeliever, including Jews that don't have faith in Christ. And, I pray for unbelievers differently, than I pray for believers, for obvious reasons. Do you really think Jews don't need faith in Christ, for salvation? That's how I'm reading what you're saying. Please correct me if I'm not reading you correctly.
Thanks

Very tricky questions Rick.. Sorry I'm going to inject here.. I believe the answer is yes and no. But yes.. Jews do need Yeshua to become saved. No dual covenant theology needed.. However this salvation also comes with a huge warning. We cannot boast against Jews who are also a part of this tree. It's recorded in Romans 11: 17-21.

Romans 11: 17-21 17 If some of the branches (Jews) have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches (the Jewish branch). If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they (Jews) were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Therefore we have to be very very careful with this stuff. How G-d is going to judge all this is beyond me (who is saved and who isn't) but it ultimately culminates in the belief in Yeshua or chief Rabbi taking the helm with full blown Torah (Jewish Law). Jewish Law will come back full circle.

[RickD]

Very tricky questions Rick.. Sorry I'm going to inject here.. I believe the answer is yes and no. But yes.. Jews do need Yeshua to become saved. No dual covenant theology needed.. However this salvation also comes with a huge warning. We cannot boast against Jews who are also a part of this tree. It's recorded in Romans 11: 17-21.

I agree. And, I don't see any boasting against Jews, going on. I'm sure you interact with Jews on a daily basis. With your knowledge in this area, do you show them how the Old Testament points to Christ?

[RickD]

The Passover Seder points to Christ:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/passover.html

Amazing stuff. Also, We had a Jewish fellow come to a church I was in a while back, and he showed how the Passover Seder points to Christ. Who says Jesus isn't in the Old Testament?

Sorry this is probably off topic, but it came to mind.

[Gman]

I agree. And, I don't see any boasting against Jews, going on. I'm sure you interact with Jews on a daily basis. With your knowledge in this area, do you show them how the Old Testament points to Christ?

Another tricky question.. Ouch. This is even harder. Unfortunately the relations between Christians and Jews has been virtually destroyed. On top of that, Christians have Jewish blood on their hands. But there are other problems here too. many Christians, including me once, believe that Jewish Law or Torah has been done away with. This simply does not work with the Jewish mindset. Therefore Christianity is considered pagan. What the messianic movement is about is bringing or resurrecting Torah back to it's proper place. It's from there that we talk about Yeshua. So directly I don't, but indirectly I let them know who I am and who I'm with. It perplexes them greatly to see Christians doing Hebrew things.

Right now Jews need more brothers than opposers. It's when they see Christians working in tandem with Jews in the resurrection of Israel that hopefully they will see and acknowledge messiah, (their true Hebrew messiah).

Clear as mud?

[Gman]

The Passover Seder points to Christ:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/passover.html

Amazing stuff. Also, We had a Jewish fellow come to a church I was in a while back, and he showed how the Passover Seder points to Christ. Who says Jesus isn't in the Old Testament?

Sorry this is probably off topic, but it came to mind.

Yes, and as a Christian (or messianic) we perform all the Jewish festivals. You can learn a lot about Jesus (Yeshua) through the Jewish festivals.. That is why we celebrate them.

[Zionist]

@ rick
i never said that a jew doesn't need christ to be saved. obviously the messiah had to come forth to bring salvation and all the OT writings point to christ. the points i was trying to make were that the god of islam is not the same as the God of the jew and the christian and that although the jew (orthodox) may not believe christ as messiah they are still our brothers. think of them as lost brothers and like how we pray and help our lost christian brethren we need to do the same for our jewish brethren. we as christians need to point to them how christ fits the criteria of messiah because although the jew may not believe christ as messiah they do believe in the messiah just they think he has not come yet. this is why it is important to understand the jewish roots of our faith cuz by learning more of the jewish roots we can understand christ that much more. as Gman and myself have said we must not think highly of ourselves or think Israel is cast away cuz as paul writes they are not. there is coming a time when the people of Israel as a whole will recognize christ as messiah and that is a time i and all of us should look forward to.

[Zionist]

@ Gman
yes and by understanding the festivals and holy days not only do we understand christ much more but we also can see how God has foretold even end times events through these holy days. it's amazing when you see how everything God had ordained meant something and wasn't just commands but signs and symbolic of so many things to come

[Gman]

there is coming a time when the people of Israel as a whole will recognize christ as messiah and that is a time i and all of us should look forward to.

Yep, it ultimately climaxes in Israel where Yeshua will reign for a thousand years if the prophecy is correct. So in a way both groups (Jew and Christian) have truth in them. But He will be ruling via Jewish Law (full blown Torah).

Shema Israel..

[Gman]

@ Gman
yes and by understanding the festivals and holy days not only do we understand christ much more but we also can see how God has foretold even end times events through these holy days. it's amazing when you see how everything God had ordained meant something and wasn't just commands but signs and symbolic of so many things to come

Yes... My appreciation and understanding of Christ (Yeshua) has increased many times over since I've practiced and studied the Jewish festivals under Yeshua. I can't believe how many golden nuggets there are in the Bible.

It takes the Bible to a new geeky level...