Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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B. W.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by B. W. »

Okay Rick,

Wish I had he publicist – Now – on a more serious note, she mentioned that she attended Sunday school, also there was a photo of her in a church with her family, so seeing heaven could have been real for her. She may have believed in Christ as a little kid and despite her drifting away later in life God had a plan for her. If so, then this is a good case for eternal security.

This was on liberal TV network show and often that skews things a bit. Who knows what was edited out of the interview. After being on interviews myself, there is a lot that gets chopped. Guess I would have to look at her book and see what fruit is in it, or not. Is the book an Oprah feel good story, or an honest one that doesn’t want to offend people, or something else as it is not always easy to gauge her experience unless one has more details…

This was on her Amazon sales page:


Q. What do you want people to know about heaven?
A. God's unconditional love for each of us is intense, complete, and is reflected in all of Heaven. Before we return to Heaven, our real home, we have an incredible opportunity on Earth to face challenges that will help us learn, grow and to become more Christ-like in the fruits of our spirit. Our time is so short that we need to be about God's business every day.
For me, her comment is telling – and most likely, in my personal more evidence for eternal security.

Again, a tree is known by its fruit… some fruit first tastes sweet but later sours the stomach and other sweet good fruit is good. We’ll have to wait and see…
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by Philip »

I wonder what she meant by her words, "... Before we RETURN to Heaven ..."?
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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It's interesting to analyze the atheistic mindset here. According to the view everything is only chemicals... Everything. There is no real love, no spiritual realm, and no real meaning to anything. It's just all chemicals. Therefore people are also just meaningless chemicals too. It's no wonder why life and the meaning of people's life has been degraded so much... And no one really cares anymore. And when you die, you go back to meaningless chemicals, forgotten forever.

How sad to live like this and view other people that way...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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B. W.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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Gman wrote:It's interesting to analyze the atheistic mindset here. According to the view everything is only chemicals... Everything. There is no real love, no spiritual realm, and no real meaning to anything. It's just all chemicals. Therefore people are also just meaningless chemicals too. It's no wonder why life and the meaning of people's life has been degraded so much... And no one really cares anymore. And when you die, you go back to meaningless chemicals, forgotten forever.

How sad to live like this and view other people that way...
Yes very sad to only hope in chemicals and the right formula...

y:-?
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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B. W. wrote:
Yes very sad to only hope in chemicals and the right formula...

y:-?
Might as well use drugs to stimulate the god chemical in my brain. But the Bible? Oh no we can't resort to that.. Oh... No, no, no... We are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselfs and love G-d who is love? Mark 12:28-34 How repulsive.. Can you image that? How dare a loving G-d tell me what to do.... Attack... Attack.. :roll:
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by Beanybag »

Cute comments aside, there very well might be a spiritual realm. I don't see why it would have physical properties and the odds were far likelier that she was hallucinating.. Unless you think hallucinations are impossible and our perceptions are always accurate.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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I don't think my memories are nonphysical, I think they are partly physical. I think knowledge is most typically in the form, at least partly, of information, and information is necessarily physical. There appears to be a nonphysical aspect associated with knowledge, however, or at least an aspect that is impossible to deduce with just information. As far as I can tell, all memories have at least a physical component. How then does a person come back from heaven and provide memories of a nonphysical realm? Not to mention, she states she 'saw' things, which implies a physical component (light) and would seem incompatible with a completely nonphysical realm.
Beany, it's a moot point. Can we or can we not transport the non-physical (information) thousands of miles through the air, and have it restored. For example TV or radio.
As far as the how, well could a person 200 years ago explain how you could send a post through a wireless hand held device (I-phone) and have it read almost instantly on the other side of the planet? But of course it can be done. So, again, what's the problem?

Your brain is certainly a physical source in your memories, but we don't understand it. The brain doesn't get heavier as we add memories.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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jlay wrote:
I don't think my memories are nonphysical, I think they are partly physical. I think knowledge is most typically in the form, at least partly, of information, and information is necessarily physical. There appears to be a nonphysical aspect associated with knowledge, however, or at least an aspect that is impossible to deduce with just information. As far as I can tell, all memories have at least a physical component. How then does a person come back from heaven and provide memories of a nonphysical realm? Not to mention, she states she 'saw' things, which implies a physical component (light) and would seem incompatible with a completely nonphysical realm.
Beany, it's a moot point. Can we or can we not transport the non-physical (information) thousands of miles through the air, and have it restored. For example TV or radio.
As far as the how, well could a person 200 years ago explain how you could send a post through a wireless hand held device (I-phone) and have it read almost instantly on the other side of the planet? But of course it can be done. So, again, what's the problem?

Your brain is certainly a physical source in your memories, but we don't understand it. The brain doesn't get heavier as we add memories.
Neither does a computer. It's about the arrangement. I still don't see why there would be physical aspects to a non-physical realm.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by FlawedIntellect »

Beanybag wrote:
jlay wrote:
I don't think my memories are nonphysical, I think they are partly physical. I think knowledge is most typically in the form, at least partly, of information, and information is necessarily physical. There appears to be a nonphysical aspect associated with knowledge, however, or at least an aspect that is impossible to deduce with just information. As far as I can tell, all memories have at least a physical component. How then does a person come back from heaven and provide memories of a nonphysical realm? Not to mention, she states she 'saw' things, which implies a physical component (light) and would seem incompatible with a completely nonphysical realm.
Beany, it's a moot point. Can we or can we not transport the non-physical (information) thousands of miles through the air, and have it restored. For example TV or radio.
As far as the how, well could a person 200 years ago explain how you could send a post through a wireless hand held device (I-phone) and have it read almost instantly on the other side of the planet? But of course it can be done. So, again, what's the problem?

Your brain is certainly a physical source in your memories, but we don't understand it. The brain doesn't get heavier as we add memories.
Neither does a computer. It's about the arrangement. I still don't see why there would be physical aspects to a non-physical realm.
Translation, perhaps? Due to it being hard to grasp a nonphysical realm, physical representations may be used as a method of "translating" more abstract concepts into something comprehensible to a person. It's not too surprising.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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Beanybag wrote:Cute comments aside, there very well might be a spiritual realm. I don't see why it would have physical properties and the odds were far likelier that she was hallucinating.. Unless you think hallucinations are impossible and our perceptions are always accurate.
No one is claiming that every physical act a person faces is necessarily spiritual. However under the atheistic law, there is no spiritual realm, therefore everything by default is reduced to meaningless chemicals. The answer for everything. Their god. Even if chemicals can't explain everything.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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This is an interesting nde, but there are even better nde's that defy a naturalistic-materialistic explanation such as the Pam Reynolds one where she basically witnessed most of her operation while she was unconscious with eyes tapes shut and an instrument in her ears making a huge clicking sound. Despite all this she found herself floating above her body describing what was being done to her by the doctors and nurses, and she even heard what they were saying, even describing the appearance of the drill being used on her. This was right before they drained all the blood from her brain and she was clinically dead for a while, and as this happened a vortex or tunnel appeared and she was drawn into it and she saw an intense light brighter than anything she had ever seen before. She then saw some of relatives and she asked them what the light was and they told her it is the breath of God.

Her uncle told her that she couldn't stay because it wasn't her time but she refused to leave. It took her uncle pushing her back I to her body to get her back into this realm. It was probably the most medically verifiable nde of all.
The doctors and nurses verified everything she described about the operation as accurate.
This is an nde that defies a materialistic explanation.
I'll try to find the video for it

Ok guys I found it :)
If you guys haven't seen this one you will be astounded
Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqD ... ata_player

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osfIY4B3 ... ata_player




There is also a great article by Gary Habermas about nde's and how naturalism-materialism is the odd man out here.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by Philip »

OK, I agree that something spiritual happened here. But I'm not sure that the experience was exactly as she perceived it. I do wonder about the part where it's stated that, "Her uncle told her that she couldn't stay because it wasn't her time but she refused to leave. It took her uncle pushing her back I to her body to get her back into this realm." If this was heaven, and this was all truly of God, what is this refusing to leave stuff? And "her uncle" - not God, not some angel - must push her back. I dunno, that part is disturbing. But there's more.

Before her NDE, this lady did not appear to be a Christian - so how could she have been in Heaven - as that would seem theologically impossible. As well, agnostics and atheists have had these experiences - and while the may have been made aware of God's presence and that He truly exists, these unbelievers also could not ever have been in heaven. And note that when others of other religions have had these experiences, I'm not aware that they also learned that the "bright light" or "tunnel" led to the CHRISTIAN God - seems like they would have learned that key point, wouldn't you think?

One last thought - is it possible that some such experiences are of demonic misdirection and deception? As for that "light" which everyone talks about - note that, "... even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." Hmmm?

I think what these experiences do prove is that there is a spiritual realm and that there is something beyond this life. And while SOME of these experiences may well indeed be valid, we have to be careful with such stories, or how much of them we can take as absolute truth.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

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Phillip, hyow do u know her uncle isnt now an angel? We dont know enough about the afterlife since Jesus didnt share everything with us about it, but your right that nde's like this arent to show one religion over another, but to show that there is life after physical death which shows materialism and naturalism to be the odd men out. From what I read Pam Reynolds had always been a christian. Maybe im wrong but that was my perception from the articles I read.

as far as an unbeliever not going to heaven, your right they arent allowed there, but who is to say that they cant be shown a glimpse of it, Ian Mccormick is another such nde. He was an atheist who was in search of the perfect wave and would travel the world looking for it, but on this instance he was bitten 5 times by a box jelly fish and was actually declared dead while he was having his nde. He was in hell and also experienced a glimpse of heaven. He came back and became a pastor.
Why would satan or one of his demons save trick IAN into becoming a christian. If you watch the video you will notice the difference Ian felt when he was in hell and when he was in the presence of the light talking to God. Who else but God have caused him to abandon his atheism and become a christian?

His body was about to be shoved into the hospital morgue when he came back into his body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-ezZ9hkD8

Gary Habermas has spent many years documenting different nde's.
Heres a great article by him

PARADIGM SHIFT:
A CHALLENGE TO NATURALISM

http://www.garyhabermas.com/articles/Bi ... -shift.htm

Lots of great information with compelling evidence for life after physical death.
Here is an expert from the research article.
In an article in The Humanist, Beloff argued that the evidence is strong enough that even humanists should admit survival after death and try to interpret it in naturalistic terms. Perhaps this signals a new shift in attitude on this subject. Beloff stated that the evidence points to a "dualistic world where mind or spirit has an existence separate from the world of material things." He admitted that this could "present a challenge to Humanism as profound in its own way as that which Darwinian Evolution did to Christianity a century ago." Yet, he added, naturalists "cannot afford to close our minds . . . to the possibility of some kind of survival."36

In an American Psychological Association convention a panel discussed the nature of near-death experiences. Only one of the panelists, UCLA psychologist Ronald Siegel, held that those could be explained totally by natural means. However, when challenged later by cardiologist Michael Sabom to explain his then unpublished corroborative accounts by naturalistic means, Siegel responded that he was unable to do so. The other panel members agreed that neardeath research points to or provides evidence for a spiritual realm and life after death.37

Some may object that subjective phenomena such as hallucinations or perhaps a combination of physiological and psychological causes are able to account for such data. Whereas some examples can certainly be explained in such a manner, these attempts cannot provide an adequate account of those cases which are accompanied by objective corroboration, since they indicate that something has actually been perceived beyond merely subjective categories.

A common question is whether such experiences can be explained by brain activity. That is, could not the physical (or material) body be viewed as the cause? However, the reported cases where brain activity was absent provide a major critique of that view. Also the examples of multiple near-death experiences in which an individual reports veridical information concerning the death of another who had "gone on before" provide possible data regarding the deceased individual which is not accounted for by the reporter's brain function.

The suggestion that the latter information could have been received by telepathy from a living person (or by some similar means) does not account for the conviction of well-being and the peaceful desire to be with the deceased, since such mental information would presumably include the fact of the death and a negative emotional


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36. John Beloff, as cited in David Winter, Hereafter What Happens after Death7 (Wheaton, IL Harold Shaw Publishers, 1972), pp. 33-34.
37. Near-Death Experiences Defy Single Explanation," Brain-Mind Bulletin, September 14,1981, pp. 1,3.
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by Philip »

Bippy, I'm not saying that God doesn't show people a glimpse of heaven.

I'm just saying 1) no unbeliever went to heaven and was sent back; 2) Why do atheists and those of other religions have similar experiences without being made to understand that the God they experienced was OUR God/Jesus? Such people often seem to subsequently have a sort of New Age God view, that all will one day experience heaven, but without embracing Jesus. Such people have these experiences but they don't testify as to WHO God is? This makes many of these experiences suspect. So, could Satan still be deceiving in such situations? I think quite likely so. In ALL of them? No, I am open to the possibility that some of these NDEs are quite authentic, especially of those whose lives are dramatically transformed and who embrace Christianity afterwards. For example, the actress Goldie Hawn had such an experience - a Christian afterwards? No!
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Re: Former skeptic shares glimpse of heaven

Post by PaulSacramento »

Philip wrote:Bippy, I'm not saying that God doesn't show people a glimpse of heaven.

I'm just saying 1) no unbeliever went to heaven and was sent back; 2) Why do atheists and those of other religions have similar experiences without being made to understand that the God they experienced was OUR God/Jesus? Such people often seem to subsequently have a sort of New Age God view, that all will one day experience heaven, but without embracing Jesus. Such people have these experiences but they don't testify as to WHO God is? This makes many of these experiences suspect. So, could Satan still be deceiving in such situations? I think quite likely so. In ALL of them? No, I am open to the possibility that some of these NDEs are quite authentic, especially of those whose lives are dramatically transformed and who embrace Christianity afterwards. For example, the actress Goldie Hawn had such an experience - a Christian afterwards? No!
Free will still dominates.
We must understand that even IF God chooses to show an unbeliever a glimps of Heaven, that person is still free to reject it or interpret it their own way.
God does NOT force Himself on anyone, God does NOT reveal Himself in a "Here I am, this is how it is, bask in the radiance that is I !!!"
No, He comes into our life with love, tenderness and compassion, gently leading us to HIM in whatever path WE CHOOSE to follow.
He carries Us, Comforts US but never bullies us into believing a certain way because the choice of HOW and in WHOM to believe is, as always, up to US.
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