How Jesus was robbed of His Jewishness

[Gman]

I thought these were interesting videos... On Yeshua..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FdDtw9vpwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35yeor8zdbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPGDK6QP ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/v/Es5iLxO_N4A&fe ... data&rel=1

[cheezerrox]

Interesting videos. Even though at the end of the day I think the names are more or less superficial, I think these videos raise some important points for Christians who aren't Messianic to think about. While things like names might be superficial in the grand scheme of things, the PURPOSE behind using the original names and bringing out the Jewishness of the Gospel is immensely important, specifically for sharing the Gospel with the Jewish people.

[neo-x]

I think this is a bit blown out of proportion. Jesus wasn't robbed of his Jewishness, he was Jewish, his parents were Jewish, his original disciples were Jewish. But the reason why there is not much emphasis on his Jewishness is because ethnicity with respect to coming to God doesn't matter, Christianity doesn't give any credence to race or nationality. Personally I do not stress upon the Jewishness of Christ because it seems irrelevant at times.

Perhaps to a Jew the alternate is in question and to them it is important to understand those prophecies concerning Jesus and how they should come to the Jesus that was promised and that is Christ. So yeah I would understand why preaching to the Jewish community this is something vital, though I still wouldn't call it Jesus being robbed of his Jewishness.

[cheezerrox]

I certainly understand that feeling, Neo, but you have to understand that for many Jewish people, what they have in mind is the "Christ" who Gentiles have used throughout history to justify their murder, oppression, persecution, and hatred of Jews. Things like the infamous blood libel, where many Jews were killed after being accused of murdering Christian babies to use the blood in their Passover services, and being forced under penalty of imprisonment/death to abandon any and all Jewish practices, such as during the Spanish Inquisition, and countless other examples throughout history. Many Jews don't realize that He WAS (and IS) Jewish, and even if they know that He's supposed to be Jewish, they consider the teachings of the NT, based on what they know of it as taught by Christians, as thoroughly un-Jewish (like a Messiah that does away with the Torah, which is an absurdity). All misconceptions, but, you can't say that it's all their fault in many cases.

[neo-x]

cheezerrox » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:03 pm

I certainly understand that feeling, Neo, but you have to understand that for many Jewish people, what they have in mind is the "Christ" who Gentiles have used throughout history to justify their murder, oppression, persecution, and hatred of Jews. Things like the infamous blood libel, where many Jews were killed after being accused of murdering Christian babies to use the blood in their Passover services, and being forced under penalty of imprisonment/death to abandon any and all Jewish practices, such as during the Spanish Inquisition, and countless other examples throughout history. Many Jews don't realize that He WAS (and IS) Jewish, and even if they know that He's supposed to be Jewish, they consider the teachings of the NT, based on what they know of it as taught by Christians, as thoroughly un-Jewish (like a Messiah that does away with the Torah, which is an absurdity). All misconceptions, but, you can't say that it's all their fault in many cases.

I am not saying its all their fault cheez and I certainly empathize with your point. Context matters greatly. I understand how important it is for Jew to realize that the promised messiah has come and now he needs to accept him. Perhaps to the Jew the Torah is still the way to go, though I think it is more of a lifestyle rather than a needed element for walking with God, that is after being one in Christ. The walk in the spirit is what is required of us. So that is why I consider Torah practicing Christians having more of a Jewish lifestyle as a religious obligation but not a spiritual one. I am certainly not saying that you are trying to fulfill the law to get salvation, but then following the Torah is only an out of the way thing, an additional practice added to the spirit filled life for a Christian. But perhaps to a Jew it is more of a cultural inheritance so I can imagine why they would follow it.

[cheezerrox]

I know you understand, brother, and I certainly didn't mean to sound as if I was accusing you of not being understanding or sympathetic to the Jewish people. As I said, I do think that making big deals of names and things is superficial, but, I simply wanted to emphasize for everyone that the purpose behind it is something important.

As far as obedience to Torah, I appreciate you being so understanding of those who wish to do so. So many Christians seem to have a kind of animosity towards the "Law," and consider anyone who tries to live within its framework as Judaizers, Legalists, Pharisees, or weak in faith. I do believe that the Torah is still in effect, but that, as you pointed out, salvation isn't through it by any means (nor was it ever, for that matter; it was always through faith). By this I mean that since the Torah was never done away with, that it still exists as the standard and framework we are to live in. I don't see living by the Spirit and living by the Torah as separate, although there are certainly many, many Christians who don't believe in living by Torah who are just as indwelled by the Spirit as any other believer. There's just a difference between legalism and observance of the Torah.

[neo-x]

I agree with you completely Cheez, on a side note, I was reading about messinic judisam and pleasantly came across this from Shema.com

What Is The Relationship Of Gentile Christians To The Laws Of The Torah?

Messiah’s Holy Community of Jews and Gentiles (the Church), while having much in common with Israel, is not identical to Israel. The New Covenant is not the same as the Old Covenant. Jews who enter the New Covenant remain Jews, and Gentiles who enter the New Covenant remain Gentiles. Gentile Believers are not the same as the Gentile foreigners who lived in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. Gentile Christians have an elevated status compared to the aliens who lived in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. They are fully co-heirs of the Kingdom with the Jewish saints. Being grafted into Israel doesn't mean that Gentile Believers become Israel or are required to live the same way as the Jewish people. Jews and Gentiles are one because of our one God and Father of all: “one Lord, one faith and one Baptism”. We share equally in the Spirit of God, who lives in all of us, and have the same hope of living forever in the New Jerusalem. Being one doesn’t negate the differences in roles and calling and lifestyle between Jews and Gentiles. Keep in mind that most of the laws of the Torah were directed specifically to the Jewish people and not to the other nations. The laws formed Israel’s constitution. The laws were meant to keep Israel distinct from the other nations.

So what relationship does the Gentile Christian have to the 613 laws of the Torah? The book of Acts records that Messiah's Emissaries (the Apostles) and the Elders of Messiah's Holy Community met to decide this very issue. In the Messianic Jewish community we commonly refer to this meeting, recorded in Acts 15, as “the First Jerusalem Council”. According to the binding, Holy Spirit-inspired decision issued by the Emissaries and Elders, apart from saving faith in Messiah Yeshua, only four essential practices are necessary for Gentile Christians: abstaining from food dirtied by idolatry, from sexual immorality, from eating blood and from the meat of animals that have been strangled (see Acts 15, especially verses 19-20, 28-29). In addition to these Four Essentials, obedience to the Moral Law (for example, not stealing, not murdering, not committing adultery and not bearing false witness) is required. The Creator has written these moral laws on everyone's heart (see Romans 2:14-15). Apart from these Four Essential Practices and the Moral Law, everything else - including the Sabbath, holidays and dietary laws - is to be regarded as non-essential, and comes under the area of Christian freedom and liberty. If someone wants to observe a Biblical holiday or custom, there is freedom, but no obligation, to do so. Gentile Christians have the freedom to celebrate the Sabbath and the Jewish holidays, or not observe them. If someone says, “Messiah is my Passover and I don't need to celebrate a Passover Seder” - that’s fine. If someone says, “Messiah is my Sabbath, and I'm resting in Him, and therefore I don't need to rest on the Sabbath” - that's OK. If someone wants to observe the first day of the week as a day of rest and worship, he has every right to do so. If someone says, “I want to observe the Sabbath and celebrate the Passover to help me better remember and appreciate Messiah, my Passover Lamb” - that's fine, too.

This does not make the Torah irrelevant for Christians. The Torah is full of great wisdom. In the Torah are found the principles for salvation, atonement and God-ordained ways of worship. The initial prophecies and God-ordained qualifications for the Messiah are found here. True and accurate historical accounts - the history of the Creation, the Fall and the Flood; the origins and dispersing of the nations and their languages; the foundation and calling of Israel; the covenants made with Noah, Abraham and Moses - are all contained in this great Book. Basic laws of morality and justice, and principles for godly living - principles that can be applied to the life of every nation and every Christian - are found in the Torah. Every Christian should be well-versed in the Torah.

I think most messianic Jews sometimes give the wrong impression when they emphasize on following the Torah form a spiritual side rather than a cultural one, I think that is where the problem begins. And sometimes Christians are too quick to accuse others of works based salvation while failing to completely understand their point. To me someone can follow the Torah as long as they know that by doing that they are practicing a god given life style to Israel but that lifestyle is not required of them and it adds nothing to their salvation; as long as that is realized I am fine with it because then I do not have to worry about some wrong doctrine being preached (though on most occasions Christians are equally to be blamed for false doctrines). I would also say that I admire the passion of some of the people who are following Christ in the Jewish heritage, I do not doubt for a moment that they are indeed honest and love God as any believer would.

Most Christians, including me at times, get uncomfortable when the Torah is regarded as a must outside of the Jewish heritage by some messianic Jews, as within the Jewish culture I can understand its importance, outside of it, spiritually it just doesn't add up. It is in no way anti-Semitic of me to say so (as I have been labeled a couple of times for it) that the observance of Torah in Christianity is not a must but some messianic Jews wrongly consider this as an attack on the Jewish heritage rather than the false teaching.

Thank you for sharing your views, bro.

[PaulSacramento]

Jesus was "robbed" of His jewishness when the Jews refused Him as Messiah.
Christianity became a religion of the gentiles and while it was always clear that Jesus was OF jewish background, He was not JUST Jewish nor was he ONLY Jewish.
Jesus' divinity superceeds his "human genetic background".
That the Word of God choose to be born Jewish is a HUGE compliment to the Jewish people, that they rejected Him is, well, "their problem" and not really anyone's business but theirs and God.
Sure Jews persecuted Jesus and His followers, they were ALSO His Followers and His Martyrs.
Sure some Christians have used "selective proof texting:" to justify their racism and that is something they will answer for, big time.

[RickD]

apart from saving faith in Messiah Yeshua, only four essential practices are necessary for Gentile Christians: abstaining from food dirtied by idolatry, from sexual immorality, from eating blood and from the meat of animals that have been strangled (see Acts 15, especially verses 19-20, 28-29). In addition to these Four Essentials, obedience to the Moral Law (for example, not stealing, not murdering, not committing adultery and not bearing false witness) is required. The Creator has written these moral laws on everyone's heart

Necessary for Gentile Christians? Necessary for what? Salvation? Sanctification? And, obedience to the moral law is required? Required for what?

If someone wants to observe a Biblical holiday or custom, there is freedom, but no obligation, to do so. Gentile Christians have the freedom to celebrate the Sabbath and the Jewish holidays, or not observe them. If someone says, “Messiah is my Passover and I don't need to celebrate a Passover Seder” - that’s fine. If someone says, “Messiah is my Sabbath, and I'm resting in Him, and therefore I don't need to rest on the Sabbath” - that's OK. If someone wants to observe the first day of the week as a day of rest and worship, he has every right to do so. If someone says, “I want to observe the Sabbath and celebrate the Passover to help me better remember and appreciate Messiah, my Passover Lamb” - that's fine, too.

I couldn't agree more.

[PaulSacramento]

So what relationship does the Gentile Christian have to the 613 laws of the Torah? The book of Acts records that Messiah's Emissaries (the Apostles) and the Elders of Messiah's Holy Community met to decide this very issue. In the Messianic Jewish community we commonly refer to this meeting, recorded in Acts 15, as “the First Jerusalem Council”. According to the binding, Holy Spirit-inspired decision issued by the Emissaries and Elders, apart from saving faith in Messiah Yeshua, only four essential practices are necessary for Gentile Christians: abstaining from food dirtied by idolatry, from sexual immorality, from eating blood and from the meat of animals that have been strangled (see Acts 15, especially verses 19-20, 28-29). In addition to these Four Essentials, obedience to the Moral Law (for example, not stealing, not murdering, not committing adultery and not bearing false witness) is required. The Creator has written these moral laws on everyone's heart (see Romans 2:14-15). Apart from these Four Essential Practices and the Moral Law, everything else - including the Sabbath, holidays and dietary laws - is to be regarded as non-essential, and comes under the area of Christian freedom and liberty. If someone wants to observe a Biblical holiday or custom, there is freedom, but no obligation, to do so. Gentile Christians have the freedom to celebrate the Sabbath and the Jewish holidays, or not observe them. If someone says, “Messiah is my Passover and I don't need to celebrate a Passover Seder” - that’s fine. If someone says, “Messiah is my Sabbath, and I'm resting in Him, and therefore I don't need to rest on the Sabbath” - that's OK. If someone wants to observe the first day of the week as a day of rest and worship, he has every right to do so. If someone says, “I want to observe the Sabbath and celebrate the Passover to help me better remember and appreciate Messiah, my Passover Lamb” - that's fine, too.

I agree, really well said.

[cheezerrox]

I agree with you completely Cheez, on a side note, I was reading about messinic judisam and pleasantly came across this from Shema.com

What Is The Relationship Of Gentile Christians To The Laws Of The Torah?

Messiah’s Holy Community of Jews and Gentiles (the Church), while having much in common with Israel, is not identical to Israel. The New Covenant is not the same as the Old Covenant. Jews who enter the New Covenant remain Jews, and Gentiles who enter the New Covenant remain Gentiles. Gentile Believers are not the same as the Gentile foreigners who lived in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. Gentile Christians have an elevated status compared to the aliens who lived in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. They are fully co-heirs of the Kingdom with the Jewish saints. Being grafted into Israel doesn't mean that Gentile Believers become Israel or are required to live the same way as the Jewish people. Jews and Gentiles are one because of our one God and Father of all: “one Lord, one faith and one Baptism”. We share equally in the Spirit of God, who lives in all of us, and have the same hope of living forever in the New Jerusalem. Being one doesn’t negate the differences in roles and calling and lifestyle between Jews and Gentiles. Keep in mind that most of the laws of the Torah were directed specifically to the Jewish people and not to the other nations. The laws formed Israel’s constitution. The laws were meant to keep Israel distinct from the other nations.

So what relationship does the Gentile Christian have to the 613 laws of the Torah? The book of Acts records that Messiah's Emissaries (the Apostles) and the Elders of Messiah's Holy Community met to decide this very issue. In the Messianic Jewish community we commonly refer to this meeting, recorded in Acts 15, as “the First Jerusalem Council”. According to the binding, Holy Spirit-inspired decision issued by the Emissaries and Elders, apart from saving faith in Messiah Yeshua, only four essential practices are necessary for Gentile Christians: abstaining from food dirtied by idolatry, from sexual immorality, from eating blood and from the meat of animals that have been strangled (see Acts 15, especially verses 19-20, 28-29). In addition to these Four Essentials, obedience to the Moral Law (for example, not stealing, not murdering, not committing adultery and not bearing false witness) is required. The Creator has written these moral laws on everyone's heart (see Romans 2:14-15). Apart from these Four Essential Practices and the Moral Law, everything else - including the Sabbath, holidays and dietary laws - is to be regarded as non-essential, and comes under the area of Christian freedom and liberty. If someone wants to observe a Biblical holiday or custom, there is freedom, but no obligation, to do so. Gentile Christians have the freedom to celebrate the Sabbath and the Jewish holidays, or not observe them. If someone says, “Messiah is my Passover and I don't need to celebrate a Passover Seder” - that’s fine. If someone says, “Messiah is my Sabbath, and I'm resting in Him, and therefore I don't need to rest on the Sabbath” - that's OK. If someone wants to observe the first day of the week as a day of rest and worship, he has every right to do so. If someone says, “I want to observe the Sabbath and celebrate the Passover to help me better remember and appreciate Messiah, my Passover Lamb” - that's fine, too.

This does not make the Torah irrelevant for Christians. The Torah is full of great wisdom. In the Torah are found the principles for salvation, atonement and God-ordained ways of worship. The initial prophecies and God-ordained qualifications for the Messiah are found here. True and accurate historical accounts - the history of the Creation, the Fall and the Flood; the origins and dispersing of the nations and their languages; the foundation and calling of Israel; the covenants made with Noah, Abraham and Moses - are all contained in this great Book. Basic laws of morality and justice, and principles for godly living - principles that can be applied to the life of every nation and every Christian - are found in the Torah. Every Christian should be well-versed in the Torah.

For the most part, I agree with this. The only thing is about the Jerusalem Council's four requirements. Do all Gentile Christians follow those rules today? Do they avoid eating blood sausage and buy only kosher meat? The point of the Council's meeting and ruling was of finding a way to make the believers (the Jews) comfortable with the Gentiles now coming into the faith. They were temporal, practical concerns, not permanent or spiritual ones (although, I'm sure we can all agree sexual immorality is wrong).

Other than that, I agree with that article, especially the first paragraph, although I don't think the Torah's only purpose was to keep Isra'el distinct from the other nations (while that was A purpose).

I think most messianic Jews sometimes give the wrong impression when they emphasize on following the Torah form a spiritual side rather than a cultural one, I think that is where the problem begins. And sometimes Christians are too quick to accuse others of works based salvation while failing to completely understand their point. To me someone can follow the Torah as long as they know that by doing that they are practicing a god given life style to Israel but that lifestyle is not required of them and it adds nothing to their salvation; as long as that is realized I am fine with it because then I do not have to worry about some wrong doctrine being preached (though on most occasions Christians are equally to be blamed for false doctrines). I would also say that I admire the passion of some of the people who are following Christ in the Jewish heritage, I do not doubt for a moment that they are indeed honest and love God as any believer would.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you completely here. But, I would like to point out that many Messianic Jews and Gentiles DO see following the Torah as something spiritual and not just cultural. While many keep Torah as a cultural concern (which is not wrong), many do believe that the Torah is still in effect on all G-d's people, including believers in Christ. That doesn't mean that is necessary for salvation at all, but, it does mean that they believe it's the Standard we are meant to live by.

Most Christians, including me at times, get uncomfortable when the Torah is regarded as a must outside of the Jewish heritage by some messianic Jews, as within the Jewish culture I can understand its importance, outside of it, spiritually it just doesn't add up. It is in no way anti-Semitic of me to say so (as I have been labeled a couple of times for it) that the observance of Torah in Christianity is not a must but some messianic Jews wrongly consider this as an attack on the Jewish heritage rather than the false teaching.

Anyone who says that the Torah observance is a must for Salvation is making the same error as the Pharisee believers that caused the Jerusalem Council to meet in the first place. But, as I said, many truly believe that traditional doctrine about the place of the Torah in the life of Christians is wrong, and because of their passion on the subject, they often stress Torah observance so much that it seems as if they're promoting legalism. I agree that it is not antisemitic of you or anyone else at all to believe that Torah observance is a must, but, there have been and in some cases still are many traces of antisemitism in the church, with doctrines such as Replacement Theology and mistranslations of the Scriptures such as 2 Thessalonians 2:14-16, which says "Jews" in our English translations instead of the accurate "Judeans," and includes the comma at the beginning of verse 15 that declares what seems to be all Jews of being displeasing to G-d and killers of Christ, when the Greek text specifically talks about the more specific "Judeans who killed the Lord Jesus."

Regardless, many Messianic Jews are quick to use the antisemitic label against their Gentile Christian bretheren, and more often than not I think it truly is unfair and innaccurate. Christians who simply are theologically convinced that the Torah has been superseded are not antisemites in any way.

Thank you for sharing your views, bro.

Of course, and thank you for doing the same, my friend.

[cheezerrox]

Jesus was "robbed" of His jewishness when the Jews refused Him as Messiah.
Christianity became a religion of the gentiles and while it was always clear that Jesus was OF jewish background, He was not JUST Jewish nor was he ONLY Jewish.
Jesus' divinity superceeds his "human genetic background".
That the Word of God choose to be born Jewish is a HUGE compliment to the Jewish people, that they rejected Him is, well, "their problem" and not really anyone's business but theirs and God.
Sure Jews persecuted Jesus and His followers, they were ALSO His Followers and His Martyrs.
Sure some Christians have used "selective proof texting:" to justify their racism and that is something they will answer for, big time.

You make good and important points here, brother. But, even though I know we may disagree about certain things, I would like to point out that Christianity did not become a "religion of the Gentiles" until a while after the time of the NT. All of the NT's authors were Jews, and all of the first believers were Jews. Afterwards (and to this day), the Church is primarily filled with Gentiles, but I would also point out that it doesn't make Christianity a Gentile religion in a theological sense, as the G-d of Isra'el and the Jewish Messiah are Who are being worshipped, and they always have been and will be.
Also, I agree that Jesus' Divinity transcends any human genetic background, but as I stated above, He is the Word of the Jewish G-d, and therefore, as it says at Hebrews 13:8, is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
But, this places no gain on being Jewish at all, and Jesus is in no way only the Messiah of Jews. The purpose behind those who stress Christ's and the NT's Jewishness is that, as the videos Gman originall posted point out, over time Christianity's become "Gentilized," and it seems alien to the people who both Christ and the NT were originally meant for; although it is also more than that, as many/most Messianics' believe that current mainstream Christian doctrine is off in a few ways.
But, sadly often Messianics cause more division than unity, which is what the purpose of the movement is to begin with. What we have in common, namely, Christ, is far more important than the ways we differ.

[PaulSacramento]

Jesus was "robbed" of His jewishness when the Jews refused Him as Messiah.
Christianity became a religion of the gentiles and while it was always clear that Jesus was OF jewish background, He was not JUST Jewish nor was he ONLY Jewish.
Jesus' divinity superceeds his "human genetic background".
That the Word of God choose to be born Jewish is a HUGE compliment to the Jewish people, that they rejected Him is, well, "their problem" and not really anyone's business but theirs and God.
Sure Jews persecuted Jesus and His followers, they were ALSO His Followers and His Martyrs.
Sure some Christians have used "selective proof texting:" to justify their racism and that is something they will answer for, big time.

You make good and important points here, brother. But, even though I know we may disagree about certain things, I would like to point out that Christianity did not become a "religion of the Gentiles" until a while after the time of the NT. All of the NT's authors were Jews, and all of the first believers were Jews. Afterwards (and to this day), the Church is primarily filled with Gentiles, but I would also point out that it doesn't make Christianity a Gentile religion in a theological sense, as the G-d of Isra'el and the Jewish Messiah are Who are being worshipped, and they always have been and will be.
Also, I agree that Jesus' Divinity transcends any human genetic background, but as I stated above, He is the Word of the Jewish G-d, and therefore, as it says at Hebrews 13:8, is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
But, this places no gain on being Jewish at all, and Jesus is in no way only the Messiah of Jews. The purpose behind those who stress Christ's and the NT's Jewishness is that, as the videos Gman originall posted point out, over time Christianity's become "Gentilized," and it seems alien to the people who both Christ and the NT were originally meant for; although it is also more than that, as many/most Messianics' believe that current mainstream Christian doctrine is off in a few ways.
But, sadly often Messianics cause more division than unity, which is what the purpose of the movement is to begin with. What we have in common, namely, Christ, is far more important than the ways we differ.

One can NOT have Christ without Yahweh, one can NOT have the NT without the OT.
Our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Our God is the God that lead Israel out of bondage and Our God is the God of Israel.
There are many reason why Jesus was rejected as Messiah by so many Jews of his day and beyond ( the Jewish understanding of messiahship was not fulfilled by Jesus based on their understanding of what the Messiah was to be and was to do) but we can not deny that the apostles were ALL Jewish, that Mary was Jewish, that Jesus' human lineage was Jewish and that the Word of God became incarnate as a Jew.
Our Jewish brothers are just that, our brothers under the same God, and even though we disagree on the messiah and on the nature of God, we are under the same God and brothers in spirit.
There is no reason to deny Jesus' Jewishness, which should be embraced.
AT the same time, we also have to accept that the Jews rejected Him and that the Gentiles embraced Him.

[Gman]

As far as obedience to Torah, I appreciate you being so understanding of those who wish to do so. So many Christians seem to have a kind of animosity towards the "Law," and consider anyone who tries to live within its framework as Judaizers, Legalists, Pharisees, or weak in faith. I do believe that the Torah is still in effect, but that, as you pointed out, salvation isn't through it by any means (nor was it ever, for that matter; it was always through faith). By this I mean that since the Torah was never done away with, that it still exists as the standard and framework we are to live in. I don't see living by the Spirit and living by the Torah as separate, although there are certainly many, many Christians who don't believe in living by Torah who are just as indwelled by the Spirit as any other believer. There's just a difference between legalism and observance of the Torah.

Amen to that cheezerrox... You are correct. I too also believe that Torah is still in effect. And that it is good according to Paul.

Romans 7:7, What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

Romans 7:12, “Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”

[cheezerrox]

One can NOT have Christ without Yahweh, one can NOT have the NT without the OT.
Our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Our God is the God that lead Israel out of bondage and Our God is the God of Israel.
There are many reason why Jesus was rejected as Messiah by so many Jews of his day and beyond ( the Jewish understanding of messiahship was not fulfilled by Jesus based on their understanding of what the Messiah was to be and was to do) but we can not deny that the apostles were ALL Jewish, that Mary was Jewish, that Jesus' human lineage was Jewish and that the Word of God became incarnate as a Jew.
Our Jewish brothers are just that, our brothers under the same God, and even though we disagree on the messiah and on the nature of God, we are under the same God and brothers in spirit.
There is no reason to deny Jesus' Jewishness, which should be embraced.
AT the same time, we also have to accept that the Jews rejected Him and that the Gentiles embraced Him.

Amen to all of this, my friend. Well said indeed.

Amen to that cheezerrox... You are correct. I too also believe that Torah is still in effect. And that it is good according to Paul.

Romans 7:7, What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

Romans 7:12, “Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”

You have my agreement as well, brother.

Isaiah 42:21
"HASHEM was pleased for His Righteousness' sake
To make the Torah great and glorious."

But above all, glory be to the Messisah Who's Death and Resurrection save all believers, regardless of observance to the Torah's precepts or not.