Had they chance ... ?

[1over137]

Hi all.

My atheist friend asked me, if Canaanites or other tribes of unbelievers were giving chance to believe.
You know, Israelites were killing whole villages, but had people chance to know about God?

[neo-x]

He is confusing Judaism with Christianity. Judaism was for one nation and one nation alone, for Israel that is. Christ came for all mankind. Israelites were not christians that they would go on to preach Judaism, it was not something you just converted to. You have to have been born in the family of Israel to be a part of it. The question shows he has no understanding of the Bible at all.

[PaulSacramento]

Hi all.

My atheist friend asked me, if Canaanites or other tribes of unbelievers were giving chance to believe.
You know, Israelites were killing whole villages, but had people chance to know about God?

Yes, they had lots of chances to repent and the "whole villages" that we defeated by the Israelis were ONLY those that posed a threat ( physical and theological) to Israel and those which God had ordained they be defeated.

[1over137]

He is confusing Judaism with Christianity. Judaism was for one nation and one nation alone, for Israel that is. Christ came for all mankind. Israelites were not christians that they would go on to preach Judaism, it was not something you just converted to. You have to have been born in the family of Israel to be a part of it. The question shows he has no understanding of the Bible at all.

But isn't there only one God? And the OT God is the same as the NT God? My friend wonders about the OT God. He currently also wonders about the following:

Deuteronomy 13:6-9:
"6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people."

And I would also like to have the questions answered.

[PaulSacramento]

He is confusing Judaism with Christianity. Judaism was for one nation and one nation alone, for Israel that is. Christ came for all mankind. Israelites were not christians that they would go on to preach Judaism, it was not something you just converted to. You have to have been born in the family of Israel to be a part of it. The question shows he has no understanding of the Bible at all.

But isn't there only one God? And the OT God is the same as the NT God? My friend wonders about the OT God. He currently also wonders about the following:

Deuteronomy 13:6-9:
"6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people."

And I would also like to have the questions answered.

There are a few ways to read this, the literal "kill them" and the more "spiritual" in reagrds to "view them as dead".
BUT lets take the more difficult literal meaning and assume that God meant to kill them dead.
You need to realize what it meant to "go out and worship" another God in the ANE:
It meant to worship, typically, a bloodthirsty demon God that advocated murder, infanticide, perverted sexual practices, and those doing so would indeed be DEAD to God.
Think this way:
A family member comes to you and says that are joining the "church of death" and that they will be sacrificing a virigin, maybe some babies, to their God, the Great God Boyacasha, there may even by a really good chance that YOU or another member of your family will be killed because you are not part of that "church".
What would you do?
What would you do if you have NO authority to run to for help and you knew that your life and that of your family was in danger?
What would you do if ONLY YOU could stop them?

[1over137]

I do not know what I would do.

My atheist friend gave me interesting question. What would I do if I was wife of Izac who went to sacrify his baby. Would I believe him that God told him to do so or would I kill him?

[PaulSacramento]

I do not know what I would do.

My atheist friend gave me interesting question. What would I do if I was wife of Izac who went to sacrify his baby. Would I believe him that God told him to do so or would I kill him?

Izac ?

[1over137]

I do not know what I would do.

My atheist friend gave me interesting question. What would I do if I was wife of Izac who went to sacrify his baby. Would I believe him that God told him to do so or would I kill him?

Izac ?

Oops. It was Abraham who had son Isaac.

[PaulSacramento]

I do not know what I would do.

My atheist friend gave me interesting question. What would I do if I was wife of Izac who went to sacrify his baby. Would I believe him that God told him to do so or would I kill him?

Izac ?

Oops. It was Abraham who had son Isaac.

OH, THAT story

Well,, if we read the story we see the Abe told no one what was going on ( untill after of course) but we see that Abe tells the young men that went with him that THEY would be back, even though he was told he would have to sacrifice Isaac.
4 On the third day Abraham raised his eyes and saw the place from a distance. 5 Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you.”

It seems that Abe knew that, regardless of what would be asked that they BOTH would return.

Now, let us be clear that Abe was no regular Joe here, God spoke personally to Abe and had told Abe that through Isaac, his decendents would be many so Abe KNEW that, whatever God asked of him in regards to Isaac, that he would not break His promise.

The test wasn't really a test at all, though it is stated as one, It wasn't a test of Abe's faith, because God KNEW His faith, it was a test for Abe to see for himself How strong HIS OWN faith was.
The truth is that when we ask God to strengthen our faith, God gives us the opportunity to see how strong our faith really is.

[1over137]

Well, concerning the verse 5, Abraham could not say that he will return alone.

[PaulSacramento]

Well, concerning the verse 5, Abraham could not say that he will return alone.

I think it is important to under stand that there was no reason for Abe to say ANYTHING to the young men at all.
That he said they they BOTH would return gives us the impression that, regardless of what God would ask of Him, He believed that somehow BOTH of them would return.
Remember, this is the same God that Abe tried to, successfully, negotiate the survival of some people in Sodom.

Again, it is important to understand that this was NOT a test for GOD to see if Abe would do whatever he asked, God KNEW that already.
This was a test for ABE to see that HE was willing to do ANYTHING God wanted because He had FAITH that God would keep his promise.

[1over137]

Thanks for answers. Can we move on to next verse my friend presented to me? It's Deut 21:18-21.

[MAGSolo]

These are the way the people lived at that time. So they made their God with the morals and ideals they practiced at that time. You can tell this because God never speaks against things like slavery, though it is clear to us that slavery is wrong. To them it was how life was, so they created their God according to the practices they were used to at that time.

[Danieltwotwenty]

These are the way the people lived at that time. So they made their God with the morals and ideals they practiced at that time. You can tell this because God never speaks against things like slavery, though it is clear to us that slavery is wrong. To them it was how life was, so they created their God according to the practices they were used to at that time.

I swear people on here have already told you God does not condone slavery many times in the past, why do you continue with this when it has been proven that it is just not true.

[MAGSolo]

God clearly does condone slavery.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.