Had they chance ... ?

[neo-x]

This isn't condoning slavery as in slavery we know today, you have to ask what kind of slavery is it? If for slavery your only reference is the African Americans who were slaved by the white man than of course you are wrong.

[Danieltwotwenty]

Mag you have previously had this question answered on other threads multiple times. God does not condone slavery as we know it, really I think the translation should be servent, because they were paid or working off a debt or even in some cases were saved from certain death and eventually became part of the family. Your constant failure to understand simple contextual issues has me utterly perplexed. What are you trying to prove by us answering the same questions over and over, the answers will allways be exactly the same. If you don't like the answer that is fine, but you have already been answered before with a rational, reasonable, factual response.

[1over137]

Can we come back to Deut 21:18-21?

[MAGSolo]

Mag you have previously had this question answered on other threads multiple times. God does not condone slavery as we know it, really I think the translation should be servent, because they were paid or working off a debt or even in some cases were saved from certain death and eventually became part of the family. Your constant failure to understand simple contextual issues has me utterly perplexed. What are you trying to prove by us answering the same questions over and over, the answers will allways be exactly the same. If you don't like the answer that is fine, but you have already been answered before with a rational, reasonable, factual response.

Your answers are wrong, they are the equivalent of saying that 2+2=7. There is nothing in the bible that indicates that this was any special type of slavery or any different than any other type of slavery throughout history. You are making up definitions to wiggle around the uncomfortable fact that the bible clearly indicates that slavery is fine and this proves that the bible is not the word of God and that the Christian God does not exist because if the Christian God were truly good, he would have clearly taught that it was flat out wrong for one person to be owned as property by another. The verses are there as clear as day and there is no indication that these were paid servants or any of the other stuff you just completely made up.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.

Under no circumstances is it okay for a man to sell his daughter as a slave, servant or anything else. The verse is clear here.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance

Again this verse is very clear. People bought as slaves could be considered property and passed to children as a permanent inheritance.

[MAGSolo]

Can we come back to Deut 21:18-21?

I already gave you the correct answer. These were the practices of the people of that time, so when they made up God, they molded him according to their ideals and practices.

[MAGSolo]

This isn't condoning slavery as in slavery we know today, you have to ask what kind of slavery is it? If for slavery your only reference is the African Americans who were slaved by the white man than of course you are wrong.

How do you know it wasnt slavery as we know it today? Any type of slavery is bad unless you are an endentured servant working to pay off a debt. Clearly the slavery that is condoned in the bible is much more than this.

[PaulSacramento]

Causal laws do NOT equal condoning an act.
Putting restrictions and rules on an act, does NOT = condoning it.
Modern example:
If a Man rapes he will go to jail for no less than 5 years and pay a fine.
Does that equal condoning Rape?
Of course not.

[PaulSacramento]

Thanks for answers. Can we move on to next verse my friend presented to me? It's Deut 21:18-21.

You friend should bring these issues up with a Rabbi, then he would get his questions answered from "the source" if he is so concerned about the Torah Laws.

18 “If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will anot obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them,

19 then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city 1at the gateway of his hometown.

20 “They shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.’

21 “aThen all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so byou shall remove the evil from your midst, and call Israel will hear of it and fear.

This was a law to prevent/deter rebellious behaviour such as being a "glutton and a drunk".
Extreme? yes, indeed.
Any case of this actually happening? don't know.
Was this perhaps one of those "scared straight" laws? perhaps.
Was it justifiable?
Under the context of what God was trying to do with Israel ( a holy nation amongst pagans), yes.

[RickD]

Can we come back to Deut 21:18-21?

Here Hana:http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/gene ... llious-son

[1over137]

Thanks for answers. Can we move on to next verse my friend presented to me? It's Deut 21:18-21.

You friend should bring these issues up with a Rabbi, then he would get his questions answered from "the source" if he is so concerned about the Torah Laws.

He is concerned about God's laws. He is trying to blacken God therefore he is bringing the issues to me and I need this forum now very much.

[MAGSolo]

Causal laws do NOT equal condoning an act.
Putting restrictions and rules on an act, does NOT = condoning it.
Modern example:
If a Man rapes he will go to jail for no less than 5 years and pay a fine.
Does that equal condoning Rape?
Of course not.

Again here you go with very poor examples. If a man rapes he will go to jail for no less than 5 years because RAPE IS ILLEGAL!!!! Going to jail is a punishment for breaking a specific law, a law which specifically says not to rape. So how on earth could punishing someone for breaking a law equal condoning it in the first place? Furthermore did you even read the verses I posted? Seriously?

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance

I dont know what else I could post that shows that this clearly condones slavery. If specifically saying that you can purchase slaves from among foregners, you can treat them as property, and you can pass them to your children as permanent inheritance, isnt condoning slavery, then what is it?!!!!?

[MAGSolo]

Thanks for answers. Can we move on to next verse my friend presented to me? It's Deut 21:18-21.

You friend should bring these issues up with a Rabbi, then he would get his questions answered from "the source" if he is so concerned about the Torah Laws.

He is concerned about God's laws. He is trying to blacken God therefore he is bringing the issues to me and I need this forum now very much.

There is no other reasonable explanation other than that the biblical God is a made up God, made to fit the values and ideals of the people that created him.

[1over137]

Thanks for answers. Can we move on to next verse my friend presented to me? It's Deut 21:18-21.

You friend should bring these issues up with a Rabbi, then he would get his questions answered from "the source" if he is so concerned about the Torah Laws.

He is concerned about God's laws. He is trying to blacken God therefore he is bringing the issues to me and I need this forum now very much.

There is no other reasonable explanation other than that the biblical God is a made up God, made to fit the values and ideals of the people that created him.

How you came to that conclusion?

[RickD]

Magsolo wrote:
I dont know what else I could post that shows that this clearly condones slavery. If specifically saying that you can purchase slaves from among foregners, you can treat them as property, and you can pass them to your children as permanent inheritance, isnt condoning slavery, then what is it?!!!!?

This is what it is:

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/gene ... buy-slaves

[MAGSolo]

How you came to that conclusion?

Because no infinitely wise and infinitely good God would command those things, things like stoning a rebellious child to death or things like this:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her

.
So if you rape a girl, you must pay the father some money and then you must marry the girl. Is that not the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?