"Sexism In the Bible" Article

[FlawedIntellect]

I totally agree that sexism comes from the hearts of men, but so does the Bible, which fully explains why the Bible is filled with sexism. I appreciate your effort in trying to redeem the Bible from its sexist nature, but I think it is beyond redemption, even though there are many wonderful words of wisdom, written by men, within it pages.

Sexism comes from women as well - it cuts both ways.

Again the OT Law' s purpose was to expose what sin is within a person.

So Butrrerfly, tell me why this is so sexist to you?

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them," Col 3:19, NIV

Next, do men and women reason and think the same? Do you realize that there are really absolute differences between genders or you think by equality there are and should be no differences?

Do you not realize that the Old Covenant you cite as proof text was done away with grown obsolete? Hebrews 8:13

Did you realize there were women Pastors addressed in the NT?

Do you realize how much hate is in your heart?

Do you realize Jesus desires to heal your hurts and wounds and forgive?
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Thank you, B. W. This was precisely the reason why I worded it as "Sexism is the result of evil in peoples' hearts." Peoples' was inclusive of both genders. In short, yes, sexism comes from both of the sexes, each one against the other. Evils are committed by both sexes, not just one or the other. In fact, the Scripture doesn't hesitate to mention the sins of men or women.

But in any case, @Butterfly, it looks like you've just exposed your own sexism. You assert that just because books were written by men, that they are automatically sexist. This is fallacious since sexism and being male are not mutually exclusive. Why did you twist my words to refer to just men? What relevance does that have on the scripture? Just because God uses men, doesn't make God sexist. Rather, he exploits the sexism of men to his advantage to bring good.

Also, as shown in the link, Jesus, and Paul both took measures to vindicate women. God works around the sinfulness in the hearts of people (men and women alike) in order to accomplish his goals, for the benefit of people in general. Women and men alike are important to God. Okay? The Bible itself isn't biased or sexist. Rather, there were people in the Bible that were sexist.

As B. W. and others have brought up, the purpose of the law is to expose the sinful nature inside a human's heart. So, taking this into account, God seeks to teach and guide people by instructing them and correcting them over time.

[Butterfly]

I totally agree that sexism comes from the hearts of men, but so does the Bible, which fully explains why the Bible is filled with sexism. I appreciate your effort in trying to redeem the Bible from its sexist nature, but I think it is beyond redemption, even though there are many wonderful words of wisdom, written by men, within it pages.

Sexism comes from women as well - it cuts both ways.

Again the OT Law' s purpose was to expose what sin is within a person.

So Butrrerfly, tell me why this is so sexist to you?

"Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them," Col 3:19, NIV

Yes I agree, sexism comes from both men and women, it's just that right now we are talking about the Bible.

There is nothing at all wrong with that verse, in fact I think it should also read "Wives love your husbands". Obviously, it is Col. 3:18 that I have the problem with.

Next, do men and women reason and think the same? Do you realize that there are really absolute differences between genders or you think by equality there are and should be no differences?

Do you not realize that the Old Covenant you cite as proof text was done away with grown obsolete? Hebrews 8:13

Yes, given any rational, logical problem men and women's reasoning ability and intellect are the same. Do you think different? There are women medical doctors, mathematicians, and all variety of scientists. Every intellectual field a man can participate in so can a woman. Obviously there are physical differences between men and women, but that's not the issue here.

As I have mentioned before, Jesus said that not one "Jot" or "Tittle" would pass from the law till all be fulfilled.

Did you realize there were women Pastors addressed in the NT?

Do you realize how much hate is in your heart?

Do you realize Jesus desires to heal your hurts and wounds and forgive?
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Could you please give me chapter and verse for women Pastors in the NT. I know there are a couple of places where Deaconesses are mentioned, but that Greek word diakonos just means servant, or someone who ministers to others.

I have no clue why you would say that I have hate in my heart? What hateful thing have I said to you? Exposing the sexist nature of the Bible and showing its male-bias has nothing to do with hatred.

I think you need a big hug...

[Butterfly]

But in any case, @Butterfly, it looks like you've just exposed your own sexism. You assert that just because books were written by men, that they are automatically sexist. This is fallacious since sexism and being male are not mutually exclusive. Why did you twist my words to refer to just men? What relevance does that have on the scripture? Just because God uses men, doesn't make God sexist. Rather, he exploits the sexism of men to his advantage to bring good.

I didn't say that because the books were written by men they were "automatically" sexist. This is what I said:

"There is no way a book can be written from a male perspective, using male hands and minds to write it without it being totally and completely skewed toward the masculine way of thinking. As such all of its laws and rules are going to exhibit a male bent in how they view women, which of course is very obvious when one reads the Bible. That is why people continually are trying to explain away the many passages that are blatantly sexist, because they are so obvious and it goes against our innate sense of fairness."

It seems you twisted my words to make them appear sexist. The male perspective during biblical times, and reflected in the Bible was that of thinking women should be dominated and controlled by men, rules were commonly given to women that did not apply to men solely based on their gender.

Also, as shown in the link, Jesus, and Paul both took measures to vindicate women. God works around the sinfulness in the hearts of people (men and women alike) in order to accomplish his goals, for the benefit of people in general. Women and men alike are important to God. Okay? The Bible itself isn't biased or sexist. Rather, there were people in the Bible that were sexist.

How can you say the Bible isn't sexist, or biased when it clearly promotes and sanctions discrimination based solely on gender?

As B. W. and others have brought up, the purpose of the law is to expose the sinful nature inside a human's heart. So, taking this into account, God seeks to teach and guide people by instructing them and correcting them over time.

The problem I have with that reasoning, is the fact that throughout the last four thousand years of history, and because of biblical laws, women have suffered far more at the hands of men, than men at the hands of women. Which makes God's teaching method a bit lopsided.
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[B. W.]

Let’s see Butterfly, your premise is this: Man made up the bible god to justify the oppression of women, killing of innocents, justify slavery, etc and etc – all that you stated so far.

Have you considered the following:

1-- Man created the oppression, killing of innocents, and justifies slavery and needs no god or gods to justify in doing so. Ancient pagan Greece, Rome, Babylon, Assyria, China, India, and Polynesia all practiced male dominance over women, killing of innocents, and justified slavery and in some cases cannibalism.

a--These social/societal norms are historically verified in the archeological and written records of the ancient world. The ancient world and times have been historically defined as brutal, vile, justifying male dominance over women, killing of innocents, warranting slavery, as well as a host of despicable immoral acts which has corrupted the human gene pool with all kinds of diseases to this day. This is more evidence how far humanity fell from God’s Goodness (So note in Romans 5:12 woman is not blamed but that point however escapes you) due to the fall.

2--God chose a person to make a nation out of during this mixed up perverse era in order to begin to straighten things out and get people back on the right track. In this, God choose to work through these very ancient social norms that infected all people and permitted certain social laws to address these issues of that era. It is these that you claim to buttress your bias prejudice of your philosophic position: kill bible god.

a--These laws were crafted in such wise manner to expose human depravity that eventually led to correct much of this depravity in cooperation with human agents own will. A New Covenant was made. God’s light shone in darkness and pushed it back and continues this to this day. This has led to the abolition of slavery, a return to better treatment of both sexes to each other, the moral outrage over abortion which battle continues. The OT law’s purpose was to expose and identify sin and deal with it effectively through Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:24, 25).

Now to the Main Point

You, Butterfly, never address any of this, nor seek to understand it due to your own breaking the Golden Rule you created for yourself. What you are doing is trying to pit your idea of the Golden Rules against bible believing Christians concept of the Golden Rule in order to kill, rob, and steal belief in bible god.. In this Butterfly, you failed. How so?

Well for starters, I challenge you today – where do we Christians have slaves, have concubines, put women on the auction blocks for sale, and then go out and slaughter the innocent for kicks, today, right now? Hmmmm…..

WE DO NOT and DEMAND THAT YOU APOLOGIZE TO ALL CHRISTIANS OF YOUR FALSE INSINUATIONS AND ACCUSATIONS!

Live up to your own Golden Rule will ya?

Conclusion: Here is the reality

Jesus was correct – marriage is between one man and one woman. God never intended otherwise. Never did God want salves – he went about setting slaves free and reminded those bound to a depraved sin nature exemplified in the ancient social norms of slavery in OT times to treat slaves well. That old system became obsolete and was dealt with 70 AD and a new covenant was made. The OT laws were to bring us to Christ and led to the freedom for slaves, freedom from harsh child labor laws, and points out that human induced abortion is a crime. The reason these were in the OT was God’s way to expose it as wrong and make people think this - they need to stop it and in this – successful.

God desires men and women to be ONE an Echaud: That equates to equality between each gender by balancing each other and not either sex dominating the other. That’s God’s idea – not Man’s. God has been in a battle with human nature over this for centuries. Ancient Pagan Rome influenced the West and its abuse and ill treatment of women carried over but is now fading. Only recently, in the past 100 years or so has this sin begun to be removed. Is there vestiges ancient Rome still in the Church, yes, but it is fading nevertheless.

More now than ever, are people reading the bible from the original languages and seeing the equality of the sexes in a Echaud union of unity – or as the bible says so – Oneness. We see the cultural and historical aspects of the ancient world in the proper context. We see what the original text and words actually mean why Paul addresses certain problems between the sexes inside a church the way he did. We see the truth.

I ask you, was Jesus a sexist as you suggest the Bible God is when he spoke what he said in Matthew 19:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9c? Next, Was Paul in Col 3:19, Eph 5:25, 28, 29, 33, Col 3:21, Eph 6:4 a sexist as you claim? So as you review these verses, I hope you realize how revolutionary Christianity is combating the societal norms of the ancient and modern world. Instead of fighting us, why not join us?

IIn all this, you fail to see truth because you have an agenda as I pointed out and underlined earlier. All readers should likewise note that when these subject come up which for me is: When I hear an anti Christian, tell me, a Christian, what the Golden Rule is and how it should apply, then I know I am up against someone skilled enough to attempt the age old trick of pitting their opponents standards against their own standards under a 'Golden Rule Subterfuge' to win a debate. The devil Tried so with Jesus in Luke chapter Four to destroy God and failed: nothing has much changed since.

Again, I challenge you today Butterfly – where do we Christians have slaves, have Concubines, go out and slaughter the innocent, today, right now? The OT covenant of societal based laws has been done away with – there is a New Covenant that is revolutionary.

So Why Don't - YOU APOLOGIZE TO ALL CHRISTIANS FOR YOUR FALSE INSINUATIONS AND ACCUSATIONS!

If you can’t please politely hold your peace, pack your kit of tricks and be on your way.
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[RickD]

Just to add, men and women are both created in the image of God, and are equal in the eyes of God. Men and women are also different, and each sex has different strengths, and weaknesses. Here's a little humor to show how we are different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43j2kCAV ... ata_player

[Canuckster1127]

Actually, we don't know that all the books in the Bible are written by men. We don't know who the author of Hebrews is. There are several reputable Bible Scholars who believe that might be due to the fact that it was written by a woman and might not have been widely accepted otherwise. Priscilla (of Priscilla and Aquila) has been suggested as a possibility. It's telling that when they're mentioned in Scripture that he name usually comes first. She was probably the better speaker or teacher and recognized for that reason.

[Butterfly]

Actually, we don't know that all the books in the Bible are written by men. We don't know who the author of Hebrews is. There are several reputable Bible Scholars who believe that might be due to the fact that it was written by a woman and might not have been widely accepted otherwise. Priscilla (of Priscilla and Aquila) has been suggested as a possibility. It's telling that when they're mentioned in Scripture that he name usually comes first. She was probably the better speaker or teacher and recognized for that reason.

It's highly unlikely that the book of Hebrews would have been written by a women, since a large part of its content has to do with the priestly order which women were forbidden to hold, and the details of the law under the Old Covenant. Hebrew women were not allowed to be educated (most women couldn't read or write), or schooled in the laws of the Levitical priesthood, thus they would have been ignorant of many of the details of the law.

[Canuckster1127]

That would be true if it weren't already known that Priscilla was very educated.

It's speculation of course. You appear to be appealing to your own conclusion as to why Priscilla couldn't be considered an author. Generalities don't trump specifically known information.

It's very much a minority position but it's been out there since 1900 as a possible explanation. If you wish to know more about it, this is a good article that summarizes the primary points.

http://polumeros.blogspot.com/2009/01/i ... brews.html

[B. W.]

Joel 2:28, 29, "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. 29 "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days." NASB

Act 10:34, "Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism..." NIV

As for women pastor's - Canuckster1127 mentioned one to you

Recall that most early churches were in homes as well as took upon the name of the one in charge...

Act 16:14, 15, 40, "Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." So she persuaded us...40 So they went out of the prison and entered the house of Lydia; and when they had seen the brethren, they encouraged them and departed." NASB

Some people have taken this to mean Lydia was a pastor in he house for a period of time. Other do not... There is another in the NT but leave that up to you to find...

In the synagogue system of that era - men sat on one side and the women on the other. In the early home Church, this was not the case. It was revolutionary and created problems that Paul later had to address. These comments, with the historical / circumstantial context removed, were badly interpreted by later generations. As I said to you else where - Generation upon successive generation were to pass on what they learn to the next. This often breaks down, in this case it broke down to the severe murderous persecution of Christians, that this was lost. Canuckster1127, if he would like too can address this in more details than I have time for. Recall, also that Debra was a Leader of Israel in the OT.

As with any Leader of a Church none must use or exercise authority or power over as an autocrat, be domineering, use power trip politics in a Church. The Greek word that means this is: αυθεντέω - authentéō and this definition is carried over in 1 Tim 3:2, 3, 6 for men... Get it? Both Genders cannot be αυθεντέω - authentéō .... in any Leadership form using teaching for this effect. And - Yes, revolutionary to this very day due to the failure of Generations to pass it on down the line.

Most women I know - don't want the job or role as a Pastor but rather prefer do something different in a Church - why go through the hassle and stress - they tell me. But the women I know who are leaders all say the same thing, "Until a man shows - a real godly man shows up - you're stuck with me until then... Running a Church or a ministry is no easy task and these are not for the faint of heart. Why - you get shot at - a lot...
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