PaulSacramento wrote:The issue with the Trinity doctrine has always been "the math", some people have a hard time with the math.
The first step is to realize that there is NO reason for God to NOT be a Triune entity if God is that, there is no "illogical" concept.
God is whatever God is and what God is is GOD, period.
If man can't fathom that, then all that means is that Man is NOT able to fathom God, no big surprise there.
The Trinity is man's attempt to "explain" the Nature of God in Human words, so of course it will be flawed and imperfect.
The Trinity is simply Man's wording of how/why Father, Son and HS share the same nature and are, because they are spirit, the same united being.
The simple fact is that, to say that God CAN'T be a Trinity is to put a limitation on God, which would make him NOT God.
Yes I understand this totally Paul and I realize that most people's attempts to explain or describe the trinity fail miserably, But the reason I have begun to get away from it is that the more I learn of God and genuine scriptures the more I see that God is much more than just a trinity. God is spirit and not only created all things, but exists in all things. I also come to be suspect of Jesus being the one and only Son of God that no one else can hope to attain his likeness, which is what many, many churches seem to want us to believe nowadays. I have no doubt what so ever that Jesus is very special and that he was promised to come from the very beginning and that he attained a high God conciousness and power and sits with the Father at his throne. He sacrificed his life and all that he had gained in it so that we might be saved by believing in what he said and in the Father. I also see where Jesus told us that all who believe will also sit with him at OUR father's throne, right? He is called the first fruits of the sons of God meaning there is more than one expected to make it back to that level. Jesus called the disciples brothers, sisters and friends, not subjects and underlings, not his children.
It all started with finding out how adulterated our scriptures have become. I mean I've known that there have been editings, forgeries and simple translation mistakes made to our bibles over the years, but I've recently been finding out just how bad it all really is. The 3rd century was very, very bad for the holy scriptures in the hands of the Roman church and from then on to the reformation, they have suffered greatly. The few remaining gospels of mark, mathew, luke and john got it the worst. I've read several commentaries from 5th century European theologens who were appauled by how different what they had from the Catholic church is from the truest Greek copies. The original gospel of Luke is about half as long as what we have now. Not because it was missing parts, but because that's how much crap had been added to it over the centuries. Very important key verses were changed as well. When Jesus is baptised and holy spirit falls on him , our Bibles have it written that God told him "you are my son. Today I am very pleased with you". A very trustworthy set of 2nd century gospels records God telling Jesus "you are my son. Today I have begotten you". What has been added to it or changed is not half as bad as what was taken out. The main reason you can't find many good copies of 1st and 2nd century scripture is because Constantine and his bishops, anyone who was for the holy Roman Empire, went on a fiery murderous rampage against anything different than what they said was right. Anyone who took up cause against the new teachings of the Roman church would eventually be labeled a heretic, their writings burned, followers killed or tortured till "conversion". Nearly all traces of reincarnation, the role of women (especially Mary Magdelene), jesus's outcry against organized religion and political power of a church, pre existence of the spirit and details of spirit life have all but been obliterated from Christianity.
Now I'm sure I'm going to get comments about how people like the Essenes, Gnostic and Origen were heretics, but why are they called heretics? because Constantine and his council said so? Why would we trust them? They had an empire and political power to protect as well as quell a war between traditional beliefs and christianity. Their motives were not pure even if many of them were good peace seeking people. I just don't yet see a reason to continue to commit to the trinitarian view. we need something more concrete than the decree of a pope or emperor.
