President 2012

[Seraph]

This is why I like you Canuckster.

[Stygian]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up numbers to influence an election.

Yeah, about that... unemployment stats are calculated way different now than they were back in, say, the Depression-era. Back in the day, it worked as expected: if you had no job, you were used in the calculation of unemployed persons. Now, if you are a long-term or short-term discouraged worker (that is, a worker that hasn't looked for work for a certain amount of time), you were not included in the 8%-ish statistic that was reported. If you included those discouraged workers, you'd have a percentage that's closer to the 20%+ of the Great Depression.



The seasonally-adjusted SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate reflects current unemployment reporting methodology adjusted for SGS-estimated long-term discouraged workers, who were defined out of official existence in 1994. That estimate is added to the BLS estimate of U-6 unemployment, which includes short-term discouraged workers.

The U-3 unemployment rate is the monthly headline number. The U-6 unemployment rate is the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) broadest unemployment measure, including short-term discouraged and other marginally-attached workers as well as those forced to work part-time because they cannot find full-time employment.

SOURCE: //www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

Taxes are not stealing.

Depends on who you ask, and what taxes we're talking about. Are you saying there are no unjustified taxes? I'd at least consider those taxes stealing, wouldn't you?

The problem with people thinking the government cannot be changed is they think the only way they can make a change is through voting. I personally don't believe this is true.

And I still fail to see why secession is inherently "bad." Don't they have every right to leave the union if they do not want to be a part of it? Since when did they have some moral obligation to remain a part of the union?

[Canuckster1127]

Good luck with that. Might want to go back to the History Books and take a close look at 1861 - 1865.

It's come up once before.

[B. W.]

This is a sobering map picture of all states and their respective counties and how they voted - more counties voted for Romney Nation wide... than for Obama. Obama won the urban vote and targeted only those areas. how - pitting people against each other and promising freebies... and revenge See Obama's revenge statment

See Map -

http://www.examiner.com/article/citizen ... ted-states

As for states seceding – remember the election’s popular vote was close and about 3 million less Republicans voted for Romney than they did for McCain.

The country is divided. Not by conservative or evangelical Christians but rather by years of multiplied years for the Democratic Party vilifying whole groups of people, pitting classes of people against each other – year after year just to win elections. By the Democrat machine team telling half the country, they are stupid and irrelevant and bigots and racist when they are not.

They are now telling us that Conservatives and evangelical Christians no longer have a right to have a political voice or representation at all and need to convert. Recall, It was the Democrat Andrew Johnson (Salve Holder) who gave us the Indian removal acts. It was Salve holding Democrats that started the Civil War in 1860 - and resisted the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s.

This party still aspires to a ruling aristocracy to govern Americans based on a benevolent plantation model of Government - really truly for the little guy – not. In fact they are excellent at pitting Americans against each other through bullying. Let’s not forget – they are the bullies and seek to deny people a political voice through intimidation and ridicule. It is for that reason people are furious – words do stir up strife and the Democrats been doing this for years which causes other Parties to react. When they react – they are blamed by the Democrats for being mean spirited. Enough is enough of this.

We got four more years of this stuff or we can stop the bullying. Instead of pitting classes of people against each other why not unite as being Americans first – well that is just a pipe dream – now.



If there is country left 4 years from now - someone will dig this old post up and we'll get a good laugh ...

[Stygian]

Good luck with that. Might want to go back to the History Books and take a close look at 1861 - 1865.

Yeah, the Civil War totally speaks for all cases of secession.

So, you don't have an opinion on anything else I've said?

[Canuckster1127]

I have better things to do than banter back and forth with unrealistic and expressions of anger and woe over a lost election.

Here's something to consider. Obama won both elections with over 50% of the vote. He's the first 2 term President to do that since Reagan and the first Democrat to do that since FDR.

5 out of the last 6 Presidential Elections have been won on the popular vote by the Democratic Candidate.

This last election, apart from losing the Presidential election, There were 10 Republican Seats up in the Senate and 23 Democrat seats. It was considered by many to be a slam dunk that the Republicans would win the Senate, particularly in view of the Tea Party Revolution in 2010 which gave them the house and many State Houses which led to typical Gerrymandering in the wake of the Census and that more than anything led to continuing to hold the house this election. Despite that, Republicans still lost seats in the house. Look at the most vocal Tea Party members; many of them are gone and many of those remaining won by razor thin margins.

Republicans and the Conservative movement in this country have a lot of work to do and a lot of things to consider. White voters are diminishing in their influence (part of the "demographics" that BW put up.) Hispanic voters are increasing. The Republicans are going to have to start asking how much of their movement is ideological which can be translated to appealing across all of America and how much of it is traditional power centers on economic and demographic areas that are shrinking while traditional Democratic groups increase.

So people if they want can scream and cry and threaten to take their toys and go home, or they can grow up, start looking more closely at reality, examine how in touch with reality they are, look at their news sources and opinion leaders and come up with an approach that moderates where needed and looks at how to appeal to other demographics with a sensible message.

Putting a Sombrero on the Republican Elephant, probably won't accomplish it.

What as more, as Christians perhaps it's time for some elements of Christianity to stop equating American Politics with the Kingdom of God and return to the Kingdom where their first heart is supposed to be. That's as true for conservatives as it is liberals. Jesus didn't come to establish Kingdoms on earth. It's one thing to vote, and be invested and care about outcomes, but it's another to be so invested that the sky is falling just because a particular party didn't get elected.

That's pretty much what I have to say.

[RickD]

The Saturday before the election, I had a conversation with a man who I consider a friend, who asked me to vote for Obama. Just to help make his position clearer, I will describe him. He is a 63 year old black Christian. His argument was that he believes Obama is for us(middle class), and Romney is for the wealthy. My friend was trying to get me to understand that it wasn't long ago that he couldn't even vote because he's black. He asked me why I wouldn't vote for Obama. Knowing my friend is a Christian, the first reason I gave him for not voting for Obama, is his abortion stance and past record. My friend's answer to that was basically that it's between each person and God. I then asked him how he could not see the obvious parallel between slavery in the US, and abortion. In both cases, under law, the slave and the unborn were/are considered less than human. And the slaveowner's right to do what he wants with his property, as well as the mother's right to do what she wants with her body, were/are rights that by law, are more important than the slave's right to freedom, and the unborn's right to life. As far as political views (conservative,liberal), I can understand a Christian voting either way. I personally don't see either as morally right or wrong. But, Obama's abortion record and stance, I find morally wrong. And, that alone is enough for me not to be able to vote for him with a clear conscience.

So, for the Christians here that voted for Obama(Canuckster, are you alone on this?), why did you vote for Obama. Was a vote for Obama, a vote against Romney? I'd really like to understand a believer's reasons to vote for Obama.

[Stygian]

I have better things to do than banter back and forth with unrealistic and expressions of anger and woe over a lost election.

Who said I was angry or woeful? Didn't like either, so I'm not particularly mad about losing the election.

So people if they want can scream and cry and threaten to take their toys and go home, or they can grow up, start looking more closely at reality, examine how in touch with reality they are, look at their news sources and opinion leaders and come up with an approach that moderates where needed and looks at how to appeal to other demographics with a sensible message.

Already did. Now can I have my toys back?

[Philip]

Couple of thoughts and a question:

1) The unemployment figures posted by the government/states are total rubbish! When unemployment runs out or people no longer or don't qualify to apply for it, then they are not accurately counted. Millions have had unemployment run out and are still unemployed/underemployed. The actual unemployment rate is MUCH higher.

2) It is very disturbing to see such a clear racial divide in the votes. I'd say that this shows that many are unable or unwilling to transcend race and culture with their votes.

3) The enormous negatives I see with Democrats are: 1) A failure to come up with a viable economic plan; 2) A failure to realize and communicate just how catastrophically dangerous our national debt is; 3) A failure to realize how business works, thinks and creates jobs, and how they could come alongside and encourage it; 4) A failure to recognize the importance of a balanced budget; 5) At least at the national level, a growing appreciation that our spiritual values are unimportant; 6) A failure to appreciate that human life in the womb should be protected; 5) With both parties: 1) have alternately and irresponsibly pursued popular new benefits and entitlements; 2) Failure to tell voters that sacrifices will be necessary; 3) Failure to assert that there are reasonable limits as to what government is capable of, or even should, solve; Failures to control spending. With Republicans: 1) A failure to develop reasonable and intelligent immigration/illegal alien policies (why the Hispanic vote is killing them); 2) Massive failure at sincerely reaching out to and encouraging minorities to join the party's power structure and grassroots; 3) A failure to realize the image they are putting out nationally, of just a bunch of angry, mostly older, white men (They need younger candidates 50 and younger, more minorities, no more rich guys or people from political dynasties (no more Bushes/Clintons, etc); 4) They must show they truly care about AND HAVE A PLAN for the poor who need a way out of their dependency cycles, and to make sure that they keep and emphasize a commitment to having safety nets for those who TRULY need them, and who have few or no options (for people in 4th, 5th and more generations of poverty, you just can tell them "Do better"; "Get a job"; "Go to school for training" - we're talking people of no means, education or training - so HOW can they do better, and so where are some plans for such people?).

Questions:

1) Are we to the point that, morally/perception-wise/values-wise, that there are not enough voters left with intelligent/moral understandings to elect politicians that can reflect such good attributes?

2) What can we do to reform our system of how we elect (within both parties and elsewhere), both nationally and locally?

3) As culture and race play such enormous influences, how do people of rightful views and values come together to elect good leaders - what can encourage such?

4) Is the electoral college a bad idea for today?

5) As youths (although NOT all) often have a significant lack of maturity and experience to make good decisions, and as their inexperience often makes them much easier to be manipulated by empty promises, should those under 21 (and not serving in one of the services - and maybe some other variables) continue to be allowed to vote?

[Canuckster1127]

My decision to vote Democrat this time was the first time I have done that.

It was a combination of factors. In part it was disgust with the Republican Party and Romney as a candidate. Romney is a moderate governor from a Blue State who was instrumental in what is effectively ObamaCare. He made it his goal to be President and compromised most everything he's ever done in the past. I lost respect for him before he was the nominee.

The Republican Party has done everything they can to defeat this President. I expect them to field their own candidates but I expect them as a party to elevate country over Party and I haven't seen that from the Republicans for the past 6 years and the past 4 years in particular. The Filibusters in the Senate for the past 6 years combined with the obstruction in the house the past 2 years has been nothing short of irresponsible.

Add to that, the birther movement, and the abject hatred shown toward this president by a significant portion of the Republican Party, and I'm just disgusted with them.

I expect to see some level of respect and bipartisan cooperation from both parties in the next 2 years. If I don't, I will be voting 3rd party and advocating for more people to do the same and end this two party duopoly.

[jlay]

Putting a Sombrero on the Republican Elephant, probably won't accomplish it.

But don't you realize Romney's Mexican roots?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... can-roots/

It is truly comical that Mitt Romney could become the "conservative" party candiate. His papaw (great-grandfather) fled the US to avoid polygamy laws. Gotta love them mormons.

Any hoot,
Bart makes some good points, but of course some of this is what I'd expect from a Canadian, carpet bagging, liberal.
He is right on the money. Regarding obstruction. It's nasty on both sides of the isle. Let us not forget that this once great nation was founded on a war over taxation.
The electoral college has got to go. Let's take a look. In the popular vote the difference was 51% to 49%. A differnce of just over 2%. However, the difference in electoral votes was over 10%. What looks like a landslide is anything but. Now, that just doesn't jive.

I agree. I am middle class and I don't feel like Romney gives a rip about the middle class. Of course, I don't think Obama does either. At least not in the sense that I want to be given a rip about. I've been in 100% commission sales for 16+ years, and let me tell you, I work harder today and make less than I did 10 years ago. Plus, the cost of living has gone up a lot. I do believe that Romney had a real plan for energy independency. And I do believe his basic economic acumen was far superior to Obama. One thing I have learned from working with at-risk, inner-city families is what Jesus said is true. You will always have the poor. What I see under four more years of Obama, in addition to out of work poor, is more lower class, working poor. People who are busting their humps but getting no where for doing it.

The Repubs are going to have to do some house keeping and figure out where they are heading in the next four years. If I were them, I'd concede the presidency and focus on congress.

[RickD]

RickD wrote:
So, for the Christians here that voted for Obama(Canuckster, are you alone on this?), why did you vote for Obama. Was a vote for Obama, a vote against Romney? I'd really like to understand a believer's reasons to vote for Obama.

Canuckster wrote:
My decision to vote Democrat this time was the first time I have done that.

It was a combination of factors. In part it was disgust with the Republican Party and Romney as a candidate. Romney is a moderate governor from a Blue State who was instrumental in what is effectively ObamaCare. He made it his goal to be President and compromised most everything he's ever done in the past. I lost respect for him before he was the nominee.

I completely agree. I lived in Massachusetts for half the time Romney was governor there. He passed "Romneycare", which was the precursor to Obamacare. Those in Mass. that didn't purchase health insurance were fined. Should the govt. really force people to buy a product or service? And yes, Romney did whatever he thought was necessary to be elected president. He stood behind the issues that he thought would get him elected. Just like he stood as pro-choice when he ran for gov. of Mass. I too lost respect for Romney. Specifically when as governor of Mass., he promised no new taxes. So, he raised fees on many things instead.

The Republican Party has done everything they can to defeat this President. I expect them to field their own candidates but I expect them as a party to elevate country over Party and I haven't seen that from the Republicans for the past 6 years and the past 4 years in particular.

Again, I agree.

Add to that, the birther movement, and the abject hatred shown toward this president by a significant portion of the Republican Party, and I'm just disgusted with them.

I agree again. While I see such hatred emanating from both sides.

I expect to see some level of respect and bipartisan cooperation from both parties in the next 2 years. If I don't, I will be voting 3rd party and advocating for more people to do the same and end this two party duopoly.

Frankly, I'm tired of both parties. That's one reason why I voted for a third party candidate this time.

So Bart, while I agree with all the reasons you posted for why you didn't vote for Romney, I still don't understand how that equals a vote for Obama.

[Canuckster1127]

It was a choice between Obama or a third party and I felt he hadn't been given a fair shot and voting for a third party could lead to a Republican Victory. So probably more than anything it was a vote against Republicans.

[RickD]

It was a choice between Obama or a third party and I felt he hadn't been given a fair shot and voting for a third party could lead to a Republican Victory. So probably more than anything it was a vote against Republicans.

While I disagree with you that Obama hasn't been given a fair shot, I can understand your voting against republicans, because I couldn't vote for the Republican running for president either. I think the Obama administration's record on the economy for the last four years showed me enough. While I understand what the Bush admin. left him with, I don't excuse Obama for what he hasn't done. If Obama took the huge debt that the Bush admin. left him, and reduced it, that would have been great. But, taking a huge debt and making it bigger, certainly is a huge step in the wrong direction.

Not to mention again, as a person who believes people have a right to life above all other rights, Obama has failed miserably in that regard. But I do understand that I can't just expect a nominal Christian like Obama to have the same beliefs about the rights of the unborn that I have.

Bart, do you think it's possible that you may have let your anger of the Republican party blind you to the Obama admin.'s outright disregard for the sanctity of life?

[Canuckster1127]

No. I don't believe the Pro-Life issue enters in on this election for several reasons and I also know better from working within it, that the deficit we've experienced is primarily not an issue of discretionary spending but a reduction in revenues because of the economic situation. None of Obama's budgets or Primary bills were passed.

The abortion issue is an important one to me. It's not a single issue on which I vote however, and those who have done so for the past 32 years have accomplished very little while violating many other scriptural principles in my opinion.