Children born with disabilities

[neo-x]

Think about it, you can link everything that's wrong in the world back to sin, there's no point in me trying to explain, it obviously isn't working. Thin about it for yourself, you will come to the conclusion that sin is the root of all that is evil and wrong in the world.

What is sin? - It's a direct contradiction to God, doing what He would not wan you to do. A transgression against divine law.

Unless you understand biological mechanism, the point of arguing this is just null and void. I mean why are you forming a position by a generalizing sweep why not read about it.

[Sam1995]

I don't think you need understanding of any scientific mechanism to understand the simple fact that everything evil and not good can be rooted back to sin. Defects, disabilities and disease are a result of evil in the world, are they not? If so, what are they a result of?

[Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. - James 1:17 NIV]

[For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, - 1 Timothy 4:4 NIV]

[neo-x]

Defects, disabilities and disease are a result of evil in the world, are they not? If so, what are they a result of?

They are the results of the original designs God made, the genetics. I said earlier, if Adam had not sin, we would still have flu, cancer and disabilities. That is why it is important that you should know a little biology before you jump on conclusions.

[Sam1995]

Defects, disabilities and disease are a result of evil in the world, are they not? If so, what are they a result of?

They are the results of the original designs God made, the genetics. I said earlier, if Adam had not sin, we would still have flu, cancer and disabilities. That is why it is important that you should know a little biology before you jump on conclusions.

If people were sinless then we would still have cancer? Please elaborate further, I'm not saying that I refute what you're saying - just interested to know more about what you think.

SB

[neo-x]

If people were sinless then we would still have cancer? Please elaborate further, I'm not saying that I refute what you're saying - just interested to know more about what you think.

Its the genetic code, it is how God made it to be. There is an immunity system in your body, do you think that came into existence after the fall too? Was Adam prone to malaria, or the flu? Would he burn himself if he went to Sahara and sun-bathed in the desert. I mean, where does these things lead? If everything from diseases and malfunction, is a result of sin, then obviously our DNA and genetics had to directly change from the effects of sin and yet I can not see how?

Cancer is abnormal growth of cells, we do not know the reason for all cancers but we do know of many. And for every reason there is, it has to do with the working of cell. That is how the cell behaves.

For instance, when Chromosomes are given by the parents to their baby, the baby gets half from the father, half from the mother. Take this to 10 generations back and you will see that the father's chromosome are not really his own but are a combination of his parent's chromosomes, and the list goes back. So the new baby, does not get only his father's chromosomes but, though a random shuffling in the cell, he gets Chromosomes of his ancestors, which may have lived 100's of years ago, where a single gene is still passed on to him through his father but it is not originally his father's, the same happens from his mother's side too. That is why sometimes, babies resemble someone very old in the family and not their parents. In this case, the baby got a copy of the gene for facial reconstruct from that ancestor and so he in part looks like him but not the same because there are other genes that complete the structure which do not belong to that particular ancestor but some other.

When sometimes, the shuffling is not done right, you get a baby, who has some deformation, the cell malfunctioned. If sin is the cause then it should be the same genetically with all, its not. The bottom line is, it is random within the choices it has, that is how it is. That is why we have such diverse races and faces on this planet. That is how it was made to be.

[Sam1995]

There is an immunity system in your body, do you think that came into existence after the fall too?

Not at all, but would it not be logical to say that disease, for example, came into being after the fall? Because I cannot see any reason for their to be disease before the fall, it isn't a case of Adam not being immune, but there being nothing for him to be immune against before the fall.

As for genetics and babies, that's very interesting! A good portion of that is new to me! After all, please don't think I have been arguing against you and now submitting to ending this or anything like that. I originally asked the question, so my view is not very clear, thank you for your insight!

God bless!

SB

[neo-x]

Not at all, but would it not be logical to say that disease, for example, came into being after the fall? Because I cannot see any reason for their to be disease before the fall, it isn't a case of Adam not being immune, but there being nothing for him to be immune against before the fall.

Why not? virus and bacteria were present long before God made Adam.

Edit here,
but if Adam accidently ate a poisonous plant which he was not supposed to eat or lets say, he ate too many apples with their seeds too (apple seeds are mildly poisonous) would that not react, would the poison not affect him? One must wonder, why is there poison in the first place?

[Sam1995]

Not at all, but would it not be logical to say that disease, for example, came into being after the fall? Because I cannot see any reason for their to be disease before the fall, it isn't a case of Adam not being immune, but there being nothing for him to be immune against before the fall.

Why not? virus and bacteria were present long before God made Adam.

Why would God make viruses?

SB

[neo-x]

Why would God make viruses?

My dear Sam, virus is a kind of organism consisting of a complete DNA, or RNA. It is the oldest form of life. A singular cell structure which later evolved.

As to your question, for the same purpose that God made death, to complete a natural cycle.

But what if Adam accidently ate a poisonous plant which he was not supposed to eat or lets say, he ate too many apples with their seeds too (apple seeds are mildly poisonous) would that not react, would the poison not affect him? One must wonder, why is there poison in the first place?

[Ivellious]

My dear Sam, virus is a kind of organism consisting of a complete DNA, or RNA. It is the oldest form of life. A singular cell structure which later evolved.

Neo, don't take this as me being jerk, but the biologist in me needs to correct this statement. Viruses are weird things in nature. They technically aren't "single-celled organisms" because they aren't made of a cell. They are basically DNA/RNA wrapped in a protein shell. There is some debate and study over whether viruses are alive or whether they are actually just a complex natural organic molecule, and most scientists that I know of believe that viruses came sometime after the first single-celled life forms (which were simple bacteria). Interesting discussion, but a separate topic.

Now, otherwise, I have to agree with Neo here. At the very least, it wouldn't make sense to say that disease and genetic disorders are purely a result of the fall. Bacteria as a whole are vital to the existence of practically all other life on Earth (you have more bacterial cells in your body than human cells, most of which help keep you alive). And Neo's example of chromosome shuffling is a good one. Unless genetics were completely different before the fall it seems incorrect to say that genetic disorders and the like came after-the-fact. But that's just my opinion.

[neo-x]

Neo, don't take this as me being jerk, but the biologist in me needs to correct this statement. Viruses are weird things in nature. They technically aren't "single-celled organisms" because they aren't made of a cell.

Thanks for the correction Ivel, I used the wrong term. The point I wanted to convey though was that viruses evolved to be complex they may have started out very simple.

[Ivellious]

I understood what you meant. I guess the fact that I'm taking a course in microbiology just makes me really nitpicky about things like that right now.

[Sam1995]

Why would God make viruses?

My dear Sam, virus is a kind of organism consisting of a complete DNA, or RNA. It is the oldest form of life. A singular cell structure which later evolved.

As to your question, for the same purpose that God made death, to complete a natural cycle.

But what if Adam accidently ate a poisonous plant which he was not supposed to eat or lets say, he ate too many apples with their seeds too (apple seeds are mildly poisonous) would that not react, would the poison not affect him? One must wonder, why is there poison in the first place?

Ah, I see! That's really interesting, not what I was expecting to find as a result! I guess it being part of a natural cycle makes sense, but you can understand the moral issues that come with a disease completing a natural life cycle from a loving God wouldn't really sit comfortably with me on the face of it.

Thank you Neo!

SB