Hell fire ?

[Celt]

If we are made in God's image/likeness, i assume (hopefully not wrong) that means his attributes as well, such as love and compassion, even if they are water-downed shadows of the almighty, then could we/you ever torture your kids for years ? (Hell-fire) Even if they commited a crime, punishment yes, but something along the lines of torture ? How should we properly consider or view this ?

P.S. - I really hope i'm not sounding as if i'm trying to promote anything, or coming off as trying to be argumentative here. just keep in mind i'm a greenhorn to all this. and trying to learn, gain a better understanding to strenghten my faith in becoming a Christian.

[Sam1995]

If we are made in God's image/likeness, i assume (hopefully not wrong) that means his attributes as well, such as love and compassion, even if they are water-downed shadows of the almighty, then could we/you ever torture your kids for years ? (Hell-fire) Even if they commited a crime, punishment yes, but something along the lines of torture ? How should we properly consider or view this ?

P.S. - I really hope i'm not sounding as if i'm trying to promote anything, or coming off as trying to be argumentative here. just keep in mind i'm a greenhorn to all this. and trying to learn, gain a better understanding to strenghten my faith in becoming a Christian.

I'm not overly clear on the question you are asking.

If you're asking how we should view torture, I think it's pretty plain to say that torture is 100%, completely wrong.

Is it possible that people could torture their kids for years? Of course, yes, we are all made in the image of God, but because of the society that we live in, and other factors such as family, friends, etc, that goodness can be to different extents within people. The majority of people who do things like that know fine well that what they are doing is wrong, but they betray their consciences because they either get some sort of sick, satanic pleasure out of it or because they are wanting to make a statement or a point to someone.

SB

[Celt]

Thanks Sam. So many see hell fire and those condemed to it as a torture, so if God is one of love,etc....?
I understand wicked society and the perverted that live in it. But the majority of parents would do anything for a child, even die for them. It's those that i'm considering.

[digging]

I was raised being taught that hell was as it were 'real'. I no longer believe this at all. For two main reasons, 1st I see that as giving Satan a reward, his own kingdom to rule forever. 2nd eternal life is only a gift for faithful believers not sinners.

Digging

[Sam1995]

I was raised being taught that hell was as it were 'real'. I no longer believe this at all. For two main reasons, 1st I see that as giving Satan a reward, his own kingdom to rule forever. 2nd eternal life is only a gift for faithful believers not sinners.

Digging

Hell does not exist......oh really?

Daniel 12:2,3, Matthew 25:46, John 5:28, Revelation 20:14-15, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:10, Matthew 13:50, Mark 9:48, Revelation 14:10.

Just to name a few.

SB

[digging]

I know all the vs's, but what do they really mean?

There is only ONE way to have eternal life.

John 3:15 NAS

"so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life."

In my own personal view, hell is simply the total lose of life forever, it is complete and there is no resurrection out of it.

[Celt]

Ok, If someone asks you,'If God is loving Compassionate, etc., then how could someone with those qualities turn around and then torment,torture his creations (children)' ?
I mean ok, they did wrong, spank them, then put them to bed (or death) in this case.
As a parent would you take a blow torch to your child for days on end to teach them a lesson ?
I ask this because it's two-fold. One ive heard this, or along these lines, before. How does one respond ? Two, in all honesty I'm trying to wrap my head around it as well. C'mon guy's help me out.

[RickD]

Ok, If someone asks you,'If God is loving Compassionate, etc., then how could someone with those qualities turn around and then torment,torture his creations (children)' ?
I mean ok, they did wrong, spank them, then put them to bed (or death) in this case.
As a parent would you take a blow torch to your child for days on end to teach them a lesson ?
I ask this because it's two-fold. One ive heard this, or along these lines, before. How does one respond ? Two, in all honesty I'm trying to wrap my head around it as well. C'mon guy's help me out.

First, maybe I would ask why they believe God is the one doing the torturing. If hell is eternal separation from the God that is denied by those that dwell there, wouldn't it make more sense that the torture is coming from within themselves? I mean, eternal separation from God, and the reality that one chose that destination himself...

[Sam1995]

I know all the vs's, but what do they really mean?

There is only ONE way to have eternal life.

John 3:15 NAS

"so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life."

In my own personal view, hell is simply the total lose of life forever, it is complete and there is no resurrection out of it.

Here is the greek manuscript of John 3:15, just so we can be totally clear here -

[ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ἐν αὐτῷ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.]

The little word in bold is the Greek word "zoe."
It is one of several words which refer to the English word "life" in the NT alone.
I checked for the meaning of this word and the definition that I came back with was:

- a life active and vigorous, devoted to God,
- of the absolute fullness of life

Therefore I'm not quite sure that John 3:15 means that only those who give their lives to Jesus will have eternal life, this is one verse in the Bible which you're using in such a way that it totally contradicts many other parts of NT scripture, just like the verses I listed in my last comment, I think there must be something wrong here. We have to distinguish between eternal life and eternal punishment, just because john 3:15 uses the word "life," does not mean that only those who follow Jesus will have eternal life and the dead will just "cease to exist." After all, if they just cease to exist, then would there not be any judgement for them?

SB

[digging]

I'm not arguing against a 'type' of judgement, to lose out on the gift of eteral life is the greatest lose anyone can have! I'm just saying I don't believe the old teaching of live suffering of pain.

Here are more scriptures that my belief is based on that only the faithful believers live forever.


John 3:16 NAS

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 NAS

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life ; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life,

John 5:24 NAS

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 NAS

"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

If you notice the scripture are really very clear about this point.

This last vs is very pointed at least for me.

Romans 6:23 NAS

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Life is the gift and only the believers receive it.

The only thing that is eternal about hell is that death is forever, there is no resurrection from it ever.
IF someone ends up there they are gone.

Digging

[Sam1995]

So, you do believe in the eternal punishment of those who do not follow Jesus then?

SB

[digging]

I don't normally use that term 'eternal punishment' because I feel the word punishment is perceived as an action type word by many.

I don't see that as the true meaning when looking at these other vs's which speak of eternal life as a gift to believers only.

Thus for myself I see the single moment of the lose of everlasting life as the punishment and since that act is permanent it's also eternal, lasting forever.

Digging

[Sam1995]

I don't normally use that term 'eternal punishment' because I feel the word punishment is perceived as an action type word by many.

I don't see that as the true meaning when looking at these other vs's which speak of eternal life as a gift to believers only.

Thus for myself I see the single moment of the lose of everlasting life as the punishment and since that act is permanent it's also eternal, lasting forever.

Digging

Ah, I see! So there is in fact, no eternal "suffering" (as in the human sense of pain), after death.
That's very interesting, will definitely look more into this!

SB

[Celt]

Some very interesting thoughts on this topic. Rick D, Sam, and Digging.
Digging, you brought out in Romans 6:23 sin=death. Death is a finality, or, at least as far as we (humans) see it. So in the sense of 'eternal punishment', the act was performed (carried out, executed) completed (death) and now is no longer a active thing ? So in essence 'hell' is the eternal resting place for sinners ? This ties in with my question of God being loving, compassionate, etc.
Sam brought out in Matt 13:50 (weeping,gnashing) Rev.14:10 (Torment) Rev. 20:10 (They will be tormented day and night).These scriptures seem to indicate a ongoing action. And to be 'tormented', would not one have to be aware of the torment ? Would appreciate your thoughts, as well as others. Thanks guy's.

[PaulSacramento]

To reject the TRUE Jesus ( The one that we all will know eventually) one is rejecting love, compassion and forgiveness.
For a person to reject this, that person is putting themselves in a "hell" of their own doing and while we are HERE and can still feel some of God's love and warmth, the moment we do the "final rejection" we are separated completely from God.
It is, however, a matter of our OWN choosing.
God says to us: Thy will be done.