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PaulS wrote:
Energy just doesn't change without some outside force acting upon it.
Unless the laws of physics are different in the other universe. Or, the other universe is eternal. I don't need no "God" to be accountable to. I'm accountable to the eternal universe.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulS wrote:
Energy just doesn't change without some outside force acting upon it.
Unless the laws of physics are different in the other universe. Or, the other universe is eternal. I don't need no "God" to be accountable to. I'm accountable to the eternal universe.
Well, if that universe exists then an Eternal God can exist too.
PaulS wrote:
Energy just doesn't change without some outside force acting upon it.
Unless the laws of physics are different in the other universe. Or, the other universe is eternal. I don't need no "God" to be accountable to. I'm accountable to the eternal universe.
Well, if that universe exists then an Eternal God can exist too.
But Paul, why believe in a fairytale God, when we can just believe in an eternal, omnipotent, omniscient universe?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulS wrote:
Energy just doesn't change without some outside force acting upon it.
Unless the laws of physics are different in the other universe. Or, the other universe is eternal. I don't need no "God" to be accountable to. I'm accountable to the eternal universe.
Well, if that universe exists then an Eternal God can exist too.
But Paul, why believe in a fairytale God, when we can just believe in an eternal, omnipotent, omniscient universe?
Because my fairy tale God has a cool beard and shoots lightning !
PaulS wrote:
Energy just doesn't change without some outside force acting upon it.
Unless the laws of physics are different in the other universe. Or, the other universe is eternal. I don't need no "God" to be accountable to. I'm accountable to the eternal universe.
Well, if that universe exists then an Eternal God can exist too.
But Paul, why believe in a fairytale God, when we can just believe in an eternal, omnipotent, omniscient universe?
Because my fairy tale God has a cool beard and shoots lightning !
Yeah but the other god has no hell or sin or any of that negative stuff you Christians preach about.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Byblos wrote:
Yeah but the other god has no hell or sin or any of that negative stuff you Christians preach about.
Now you're seeing my pov Byblos. Why be accountable to a God, when we can just believe in an eternal universe. It's much simpler. It lets man be his own "god". Master of his own destruction, er I mean master of his own destiny.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Now i am fully aware that this topic has been addressed before, i would like to see a bit more attention given to it
The universe has either been designed by god, or it has been created by a Multiverse that Creates them infintely
I havent been able to find a lasting answer that isnt broken apart by my own thinking, Why cant this multiverse exist? and i just draw a blank
Mabye i am not looking hard enough or mabye im just not thinking the right way, but hopefully some answers or insight from you guys will help me out.
Thanks for your time.
Hello again my friend, This is why I love the great christian appologists like William Land Craig. Remember the BGV theorum is a very established scientific theorum that states that even if there are multiverses that there must be an ultimate beginning, and therefore a first cause that is uncaused. The multiverse its must have a definite beginning.
Now i am fully aware that this topic has been addressed before, i would like to see a bit more attention given to it
The universe has either been designed by god, or it has been created by a Multiverse that Creates them infintely
I havent been able to find a lasting answer that isnt broken apart by my own thinking, Why cant this multiverse exist? and i just draw a blank
Mabye i am not looking hard enough or mabye im just not thinking the right way, but hopefully some answers or insight from you guys will help me out.
Thanks for your time.
Hello again my friend, This is why I love the great christian appologists like William Land Craig. Remember the BGV theorum is a very established scientific theorum that states that even if there are multiverses that there must be an ultimate beginning, and therefore a first cause that is uncaused. The multiverse its must have a definite beginning.
I agree with Craig wholeheartedly. I often find though, that non-Christians find the first cause being an intelligent being with will hard to see and accept. They tend to have their eyes closed or something, and just ask why can't it be unintelligent even when the logic is carefully laid out. Perhaps they're just burying their heads in the sand.
Just wondering. I haven't given it much thought. But if you could put together a quick 30 second response to someone who raised a multiverse at work or what-have-you. What's the best response you could give?
Kurieuo wrote:I agree with Craig wholeheartedly. I often find though, that non-Christians find the first cause being an intelligent being with will hard to see and accept. They tend to have their eyes closed or something, and just ask why can't it be unintelligent even when the logic is carefully laid out. Perhaps they're just burying their heads in the sand.
That's the key K, a timeless, immaterial, intelligent being with the will (to form the intent) to create ex nihilo. Otherwise, nothing.
Kurieuo wrote:If you could put together a quick 30 second response to someone who raised a multiverse at work or what-have-you. What's the best response you could give?
Come to think of it, what I wrote above is a pretty good start.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Now i am fully aware that this topic has been addressed before, i would like to see a bit more attention given to it
The universe has either been designed by god, or it has been created by a Multiverse that Creates them infintely
I havent been able to find a lasting answer that isnt broken apart by my own thinking, Why cant this multiverse exist? and i just draw a blank
Mabye i am not looking hard enough or mabye im just not thinking the right way, but hopefully some answers or insight from you guys will help me out.
Thanks for your time.
Hello again my friend, This is why I love the great christian appologists like William Land Craig. Remember the BGV theorum is a very established scientific theorum that states that even if there are multiverses that there must be an ultimate beginning, and therefore a first cause that is uncaused. The multiverse its must have a definite beginning.
I agree with Craig wholeheartedly. I often find though, that non-Christians find the first cause being an intelligent being with will hard to see and accept. They tend to have their eyes closed or something, and just ask why can't it be unintelligent even when the logic is carefully laid out. Perhaps they're just burying their heads in the sand.
Just wondering. I haven't given it much thought. But if you could put together a quick 30 second response to someone who raised a multiverse at work or what-have-you. What's the best response you could give?
Kurieuo, its been such a long time since I debated this issue ( and those were some long debates with up to 25 atheists at once lol). I would say first just as Philip clearly stated in his post that the multiverse is just speculation. Then I would go by what we have now and that is the big bang, and the 33 fine tuned constants that seem almost impossible to have happened by chance. It is almost as if our universe was finely tuned just for us, and finally the first should be intelligent because of the amazing complexity of the universe and its finely tuned constants for life..
If the atheist believes that its unbelievable that the incredible complexity and order that exists in our universe could have come from an intelligent first cause, just think of how much more unbelievable it is to believe that the universe and all of its complexities could have come from an unintelligent first cause .
and since the first cause had to act to create he had to have the will and intellect to put this in motion.
In short its more rediculous to believe in an unintelligent first cause then an intelligent first cause
.