Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
agnosticfornow wrote:Hi 1over137 - I guess I meant to say I believe we are an insignificant species relative to the temporal and spatial scale of the universe. b.t.w. I like your quote from Thessalonians!
Only from our perspective the universe is huge, like ants would think our back yard is huge.
Do you think God from his perspective would think our universe is huge?
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
agnosticfornow wrote:Hi 1over137 - I guess I meant to say I believe we are an insignificant species relative to the temporal and spatial scale of the universe. b.t.w. I like your quote from Thessalonians!
Well, if I think about this, imagine that we would see the boundary of the universe or nothing in the universe, just meer darkness. And imagine we would 'see' beginnning of the universe.
Maybe we would wonder why wee see 'the wall' or meer darkness. Well, isn't it great to observe great vast creation?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6
Dan - you're right, the context of my original question must assume the existence of God. My second post in this thread was confusing. I think your earlier response that God may well be busily dealing or not dealing with other matters in the universe fully addresses the original (and in retrospect not so interesting) question Thanks.
agnosticfornow wrote:Hi 1over137 - I guess I meant to say I believe we are an insignificant species relative to the temporal and spatial scale of the universe. b.t.w. I like your quote from Thessalonians!
Well, if I think about this, imagine that we would see the boundary of the universe or nothing in the universe, just meer darkness. And imagine we would 'see' beginnning of the universe.
Maybe we would wonder why wee see 'the wall' or meer darkness. Well, isn't it great to observe great vast creation?
Hana, I heard the guys at reasons.org saying the universe is like the surface of a balloon. Wherever one is on the surface, we'd never see the edge of the universe. Although, I really can't say I understand that concept.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
agnosticfornow wrote:Thank you for all your responses, especially Sam1995 and theophilus.
Sam1995 - I don't get why an omnipotent God would need to wait billions of years to get our planet in a perfect state for humanity to flourish.
theophilus - You say "[o]nly things that can be observed or tested scientifically can be considered scientific facts and estimates of the age of the universe or the earth don't fall into either category." Taking your definition then it is a scientific fact that the universe is at least 12 billion years old since scientists have recently observed/measured with some pretty fancy telescopes distant supernovae that exploded about that long ago: See http://www.space.com/18298-oldest-farth ... sions.html. As for the age of the Earth, that would be harder to directly measure with our current technology. But the 12 billion year minimum age of the universe is sufficient for the present context and my query about anthropocentrism. 12 billion years of the universe kicking around, and then suddenly the Christian God decides to stir up some action on our planet. In partial response to one of jlay's points, I see insignificance based at least on the scale of time (2000 years versus 12,000,000,000 years) and size (our planet versus size of observable universe).
theophilus has mentioned that it is dangerous to limit my questioning to one group of people because people outside of that group may have the answers I seek. That's a valid point but in my past experience I have had much more enlightening conversations with those with whom some I share more common ground. Interfaith discussions for example tend be between the moderates not the extremists.
theophilus also notes that there is no reason to believe we are getting special treatment since we don't know what the Christian God is up to in other worlds, if there are other worlds. I would think that being created in His image and likeness is getting special treatment. In any event, would it be fair then for me to take your point as your acknowledging the **possibility** of the Christian God doing His thing on other possible worlds, e.g. sacrificing Christ's siblings (or perhaps Christ himself over and over again) to save other alien races created in his image and likeness from their sins, etc. etc.?
I acknowledge jlay's point about presuming there is a conflict. My bad. At present, **I** see a conflict, and would like to continue to hear the views of those who don't see one and why.
Your assumptions have assumptions. The estimate is faith, plain and simple. Why are you so quick to place your faith in something you've never seen, from someone you've never met?
Not sure how loosely the word "habitable" is being used here, but this is wishful thinking. We are extremely limited on what we can know about any planet outside our solar system. This is speculation, but it really doesn't matter. What if every planet were "habitable"? Do you know the odds of intelligent life existing even on a habitible planet? If you think there are billions of habitable planets, well hop on a space ship and send us a report.
Also, you assume God is waiting. Why? Because you are confined to time, a transcendent God by definition would not be.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
Thanks.
