Jehovah witnesses

[1stjohn0666]

John 20.28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Here we have a clear confession of faith by Thomas who had previously doubted the resurrection
of Jesus. There can be no question that he calls Jesus, “my Lord and my God.” However, is this
to be understood in an ontological [of or relating to substance] or representative [Jesus represents
God to us] sense? To say that the resurrection proves that Jesus is God is counterintuitive,
because God cannot die (1 Timothy 1.17); since only dead people are resurrected, the resurrected
one cannot be God. Furthermore, the phrase “my lord” is never applied to God and is
represented in Hebrew as adoni (a title exclusively used of those who are not God). In effect,
calling Jesus “my lord” is equivalent to saying that he is not God Almighty. Either Thomas was
confessing that he in fact was now seeing God in Christ (cf. John 14.7-11), or he was calling
Jesus God in a representative sense like Moses, the Judges of Israel, and the King of Israel were
called God (Exodus 7.1; 21.7; 22.8-9; Psalm 45.6; 82.6). Jesus himself spoke of the judges of
Israel being called Gods in this representational sense when the religious leaders accused him of
claiming to be God (John 10.33-36).
By Sean Finnegan
http://www.christianmonothiesm.com

[RickD]

John 20.28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Here we have a clear confession of faith by Thomas who had previously doubted the resurrection
of Jesus. There can be no question that he calls Jesus, “my Lord and my God.” However, is this
to be understood in an ontological [of or relating to substance] or representative [Jesus represents
God to us] sense? To say that the resurrection proves that Jesus is God is counterintuitive,
because God cannot die (1 Timothy 1.17); since only dead people are resurrected, the resurrected
one cannot be God. Furthermore, the phrase “my lord” is never applied to God and is
represented in Hebrew as adoni (a title exclusively used of those who are not God). In effect,
calling Jesus “my lord” is equivalent to saying that he is not God Almighty. Either Thomas was
confessing that he in fact was now seeing God in Christ (cf. John 14.7-11), or he was calling
Jesus God in a representative sense like Moses, the Judges of Israel, and the King of Israel were
called God (Exodus 7.1; 21.7; 22.8-9; Psalm 45.6; 82.6). Jesus himself spoke of the judges of
Israel being called Gods in this representational sense when the religious leaders accused him of
claiming to be God (John 10.33-36).
By Sean Finnegan
http://www.christianmonotheism.com

John, that website's name is misleading. They are Unitarians. Why don't they have a name that shows that? Because Unitarianism is a cult, and by putting Christianmonotheism is the name, it sucks in people who might not know the difference. If you want to be a Unitarian, go peddle it somewhere else. This forum isn't going to be a platform for people to promote their cultic beliefs. "Jesus is God" is as basic of a belief that there is in Christianity. The gospel is meaningless unless Jesus is God. God cannot save mankind through an imperfect sacrifice. Since God alone is perfect, and Jesus is the perfect unblemished sacrifice, then Jesus must be God. So take your other jesus, and go try to sell him somewhere else. Nobody here is buying.

[Philip]

Unitarians love a multiple choice range of possibilities as to the question of "Which one is God?"

From the various choices, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, X, Y , or whatever, they like answer choices such as:

- ALL of the above

- Possibly All of the above

- Perhaps one of the above and likely others

- One can never truly know

And so as long as you aren't settled on any one definitive, unquestionable God, then you purposely, certainly necessarily, avoid being held accountable to the teachings of any one supposed deity or his representatives (which is likely one's motive, anyway). And when you cobble together a buffet-style religiosity of your own making, in which the menu of gods and practices is as limited or unlimited as you so choose, then the reality becomes, by doing so, you make yourself your own little god, even though you stole all of your beliefs and practices, you nonetheless own the hodgepodge you have created. As the reality is, if you don't know WHO God is, then you don't know WHICH God to follow - making any true god or gods totally irrelevant. Unless you are wrong - which Christians all know Jesus said is EXTREMELY relevant!

[1stjohn0666]

John, that website's name is misleading. They are Unitarians. Why don't they have a name that shows that? Because Unitarianism is a cult, and by putting Christianmonotheism is the name, it sucks in people who might not know the difference. If you want to be a Unitarian, go peddle it somewhere else. This forum isn't going to be a platform for people to promote their cultic beliefs. "Jesus is God" is as basic of a belief that there is in Christianity. The gospel is meaningless unless Jesus is God. God cannot save mankind through an imperfect sacrifice. Since God alone is perfect, and Jesus is the perfect unblemished sacrifice, then Jesus must be God. So take your other jesus, and go try to sell him somewhere else. Nobody here is buying.

My beliefs differ than yours, scripture says different than what you posted. You say Jesus is God and is a good debate, but I simply disagree..that's what debate is about.
"God cannot save mankind through an imperfect sacrifice" ..... Heb 9:11-28, according to trinitarians, binitarians, and unitarians, Jesus was the "PERFECT" sacrifice TO GOD... unless I missed something If Jesus "was" God, he could not have sacrificed to himself, and therefore cannot be God himself. <-- this is the "agent" of God!!
About Unitarianism being a cult... Jesus was NOT a trinitarian .. he preached, agreed, commended, said himself in prayer, and specifically stated "my Father your Father, My God and your God" <--- If Jesus has a God, I want the son and the God of Jesus!!
Check this out!! And remember I do not agree with all of the doctrine presented by this website.
http://www.biblicalunitarain.com/verses/1-john-2-22
Rom 10:9 does NOT say "that if I confess with my mouth Jesus is God"....
I guess I could be a Thomasistian LOL "My Lord and My God"
Shalom = Peace

[B. W.]

Furthermore, the phrase “my lord” is never applied to God and is represented in Hebrew as adoni (a title exclusively used of those who are not God) By Sean Finnegan

Are you so sure about - never? And that adoni is - a title exclusively used of those who are not God...?

What about these bible verses that do refer to YWHH and Elohim as Adoni?

Psalms 86:12, I will give thanks to You, O Lord my God, with all my heart, And will glorify Your name forever.

Then add all these small fraction of verses posted here to others not quoted where God himself calls himself adoni and your point of view falls apart.

Psalms 38:15, For I hope in You, O LORD; You will answer, O Lord my God

Psalms 40:17, Since I am afflicted and needy, Let the Lord be mindful of me. You are my help and my deliverer; Do not delay, O my God.

Psalms 54:4, Behold, God is my helper; The Lord is the sustainer of my soul.

Psalms 68:19, 20, Blessed be the Lord, who daily bears our burden, The God who is our salvation. Selah. 68:20 God is to us a God of deliverances; And to GOD the Lord belong escapes from death.

Psalms 71:5, 16, For You are my hope; O Lord GOD, You are my confidence from my youth. 16 I will come with the mighty deeds of the Lord GOD; I will make mention of Your righteousness, Yours alone.

Psalms 73:28, But as for me, the nearness of God is my good; I have made the Lord GOD my refuge, That I may tell of all Your works.

Isa 1:24 Therefore the Lord GOD of hosts, The Mighty One of Israel, declares, "Ah, I will be relieved of My adversaries And avenge Myself on My foes.

Isa 3:1 For behold, the Lord GOD of hosts is going to remove from Jerusalem and Judah Both supply and support, the whole supply of bread And the whole supply of water;

Isa 51:22 Thus says your Lord, the LORD, even your God Who contends for His people, "Behold, I have taken out of your hand the cup of reeling, The chalice of My anger; You will never drink it again.

Add to the list and these are but a smallest fraction of verse where adoni denotes Elohim and YHWH and to make a claim as you and Finnegan denies the very reality of empirical text of the bible:

Furthermore, the phrase “my lord” is never applied to God and is represented in Hebrew as adoni (a title exclusively used of those who are not God) By Sean Finnegan

Psalms 86:12 I will give thanks to You, O Lord my God, with all my heart, And will glorify Your name forever.

Isaiah 7:7 - Isaiah 10:16,23,24,33 – Isaiah 50:4,5,7,9, 10, 15, 22 – Jer 1:6 – Jer 7:20 – Jer 50:1

Ezekiel 3:27 - Ezekiel 5:7,8,11 – Ezekiel 6:3,11

Isaiah 40:10 His arm rules – that is Jesus who comes froth from God... and is God

Bible quotes from the NASB
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[B. W.]

John 20.28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Here we have a clear confession of faith by Thomas who had previously doubted the resurrection of Jesus. There can be no question that he calls Jesus, “my Lord and my God.” However, is this to be understood in an ontological [of or relating to substance] or representative [Jesus represents God to us] sense? To say that the resurrection proves that Jesus is God is counterintuitive, because God cannot die (1 Timothy 1.17); since only dead people are resurrected, the resurrected one cannot be God. Furthermore, the phrase “my lord” is never applied to God and is represented in Hebrew as adoni (a title exclusively used of those who are not God). In effect, calling Jesus “my lord” is equivalent to saying that he is not God Almighty. Either Thomas was confessing that he in fact was now seeing God in Christ (cf. John 14.7-11), or he was calling Jesus God in a representative sense like Moses, the Judges of Israel, and the King of Israel were called God (Exodus 7.1; 21.7; 22.8-9; Psalm 45.6; 82.6). Jesus himself spoke of the judges of Israel being called Gods in this representational sense when the religious leaders accused him of claiming to be God (John 10.33-36).

By Sean Finnegan

This is pure Heresy and double speak!

Christian Trinitarians are Monotheists and that is the falsity of your system in trying to brand Christians into something they are not, Mr Johnn666. – the 666 of your avatar name is quiet fitting.

Unitarians love a multiple choice range of possibilities as to the question of "Which one is God?"

Yes.... which one is God? We can't have multiple Gods. That's where the non-biblical Creeds come into play!!
Creedal Christian vs. Biblical Christian IMHO.

How dare you and Finnegan falsely assert what orthodox Christians teach on the nature of God!

That quote from Unitarian Universalist Sean Finnegan is pure double speak and shows complete contempt for the Lord of the Universe as well as complete utter contempt for real honest biblical exegesis, homiletics, and language studies. Notice how he speaks great swelling words that always forbid what the bible actually says and means? You think his words trump the bible?

The bible is clear about who Jesus is. He spoke in the Old Testament as have been shown you.

John 8:56-59, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

"57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"

"58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." NKJV

Mr johnny666 will you please stop picking up stones?

Isa 25:9 …And it will be said in that day: "Behold, this is our God; We have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the LORD; We have waited for Him; We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."

Jer 23:5, 6 "…Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

You have God calling Jesus YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So does Paul…

1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV, "And confessedly great is the [2 of the 3 piety 1 mystery]; God made manifest in flesh, justified in spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among nations, believed in the world, taken up in glory." Apostolic Bible Polygot Translation

So does the Psalmist

Psa 45:6, 7, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." NIV

So does Isaiah

Isa 46:9 - Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. NIV

Isa 45:5 -I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. NIV

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. NIV

Isa 45:21, 22, 23, 24, 25 Declare what is to be, present it-- let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.'" All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. 25 But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him. NIV

John, that website's name is misleading. They are Unitarians. Why don't they have a name that shows that? Because Unitarianism is a cult, and by putting Christianmonotheism is the name, it sucks in people who might not know the difference. If you want to be a Unitarian, go peddle it somewhere else. This forum isn't going to be a platform for people to promote their cultic beliefs. "Jesus is God" is as basic of a belief that there is in Christianity. The gospel is meaningless unless Jesus is God. God cannot save mankind through an imperfect sacrifice. Since God alone is perfect, and Jesus is the perfect unblemished sacrifice, then Jesus must be God. So take your other jesus, and go try to sell him somewhere else. Nobody here is buying.

My beliefs differ than yours, scripture says different than what you posted. You say Jesus is God and is a good debate, but I simply disagree..that's what debate is about.
"God cannot save mankind through an imperfect sacrifice" ..... Heb 9:11-28, according to trinitarians, binitarians, and unitarians, Jesus was the "PERFECT" sacrifice TO GOD... unless I missed something If Jesus "was" God, he could not have sacrificed to himself, and therefore cannot be God himself. <-- this is the "agent" of God!!
About Unitarianism being a cult... Jesus was NOT a trinitarian .. he preached, agreed, commended, said himself in prayer, and specifically stated "my Father your Father, My God and your God" <--- If Jesus has a God, I want the son and the God of Jesus!! Check this out!! And remember I do not agree with all of the doctrine presented by this website
Rom 10:9 does NOT say "that if I confess with my mouth Jesus is God".... I guess I could be a Thomasistian LOL "My Lord and My God"
Shalom = Peace

Your disagreement is heresy... a false Jesus...

Proverbs 30:5,6 NASB "Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Jesus was NOT a Trinitarian…

John 8:56-59, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." NKJV

You face great danger in the afterlife...

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[1stjohn0666]

There is not one verse in all of scripture where "ADONI" is YHWH.... YHWH is always spoken of as ADONAI
Being "called" something does not imply identity!! I could "call" you a jerk, but are you really and honestly a jerk?
Nice to bring up the "EGO EIMI" of John 8:58 compare the Greek with Greek of Exodus 3:14 and they a grammatically different Exo 3:14 is "EGO EIMI HO ON" Jesus did not say that!! Jesus did say "EGO EIMI" which a few verses later in John 9:9 the blind man also said "EGO EIMI" <--- If ego eimi is a claim of being God, then the blind man must also be God because of the use of IDENTICAL words. The blind man said "I am" so he must be "another" God.
In all of the verses you presented NOT 1 has "ADONI... pronounced ADONEE, not to be confused with ADONAI, pronounced like El Shaddai or ADON-EYE
Psalm 110:1 says Adonai then Adoni... go on and fact check me!!
Jesus also is never Adonai!!

[Sam1995]

The first two lines of your most recent response now imply that some Biblical scripture is both a lie and deceiving because there are false names given to God.

Any more refutes to biblical scripture that you wish to make?

SB

[B. W.]

There is not one verse in all of scripture where "ADONAI" is YHWH.... YHWH is always spoken of as ADONAI.... Being "called" something does not imply identity!! I could "call" you a jerk, but are you really and honestly a jerk?

Rather bold of you to claim that there is not one verse in all of scripture where "ADONAI" is YHWH…

Hmmm… Here are at least four verses out of hundreds that do:

Eze 20:3 'Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel, and say unto them: Thus saith the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH): Are ye come to inquire of Me? As I live, saith the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH), I will not be inquired of by you. JPS

Amo 7:6 The LORD (YHWH) repented concerning this; 'This also shall not be', saith the Lord(Adonai) GOD (YHWH). JPS
So I guess YHWH got it wrong identifying himself as adonai YHWH…

Isa 1:24, Therefore the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH) of hosts, The Mighty One of Israel, declares, "Ah, I will be relieved of My adversaries And avenge Myself on My foes. NASB

Isa 17:6 Yet there shall be left therein gleanings, as at the beating of an olive-tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the branches of the fruitful tree, saith the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH) of Israel. JPS

Here are a few more just in case you fail to see…

Isa 19:4 I will hand the Egyptians over to the power of a cruel master, and a fierce king will rule over them," declares the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH). of the Heavenly Armies. JPS

Isa 22:14 And the LORD of hosts revealed Himself in mine ears: Surely this iniquity shall not be expiated by you till ye die, saith the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH) of hosts. JPS

Eze 12:25 For I am the LORD; I will speak, what word soever it be that I shall speak, and it shall be performed; it shall be no more delayed; for in your days, O rebellious house, will I speak the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord(Adonai) GOD (YHWH)..' JPS

Eze 20:44 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have wrought with you for My name's sake, not according to your evil ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord(Adonai) GOD (YHWH)..' JPS

Eze 26:14 And I will make thee a bare rock; thou shalt be a place for the spreading of nets, thou shalt be built no more; for I the LORD have spoken, saith the Lord (Adonai) GOD (YHWH).. JPS

1stjohnny666 you got it wrong here and so does your doctrine…
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[B. W.]

Nice to bring up the "EGO EIMI" of John 8:58 compare the Greek with Greek of Exodus 3:14 and they a grammatically different Exo 3:14 is "EGO EIMI HO ON" Jesus did not say that!! Jesus did say "EGO EIMI" which a few verses later in John 9:9 the blind man also said "EGO EIMI" <--- If ego eimi is a claim of being God, then the blind man must also be God because of the use of IDENTICAL words. The blind man said "I am" so he must be "another" God. In all of the verses you presented NOT 1 has "ADONI... pronounced ADONEE, not to be confused with ADONAI, pronounced like El Shaddai or ADON-EYEPsalm 110:1 says Adonai then Adoni... go on and fact check me!! Jesus also is never Adonai!!

I will let Jamieson, Faussett, and Brown Commentary answer this:

John 8:58

Before Abraham was, I am — The words rendered “was” and “am” are quite different. The one clause means, “Abraham was brought into being”; the other, “I exist.” The statement therefore is not that Christ came into existence before Abraham did (as Arians affirm is the meaning), but that He never came into being at all, but existed before Abraham had a being; in other words, existed before creation, or eternally (as John 1:1). In that sense the Jews plainly understood Him, since “then took they up stones to cast at Him,” just as they had before done when they saw that He made Himself equal with God (John 5:18).

As well as the Jewish New Testament Commentary answers too:

John 8:58-59

Before Avraham came into being, I AM. This and John 10:30 are Yeshua's clearest self-pronouncements of his divinity. On "I AM" see John 4:26. It was very clear to the Judeans exactly what Yeshua's claim was, because they immediately took up stones to put him to death (John 8:59) for blasphemy. Claiming to be God and, specifically, pronouncing God's name (as Yeshua had just done) were punishable by death (Lev 24:15-16 and Mishna Sanhedrin 7:5, "The blasphemer is not guilty until he pronounces the Name.").

Also - Robertson’s Word Pictures States:

John 8:58

Before Abraham was (prin Abraam genesthai). Usual idiom with prin in positive sentence with infinitive (second aorist middle of ginomai) and the accusative of general reference, “before coming as to Abraham,” “before Abraham came into existence or was born.”

I am (egō eimi). Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God. The contrast between genesthai (entrance into existence of Abraham) and eimi (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between en in John 1:1 and egeneto in John 1:14. See the contrast also in Psalms 90:2 between God (ei, art) and the mountains (genēthēnai). See the same use of eimi in John 6:20; John 9:9; John 8:24, John 8:28; John 18:6.

[1stjohn0666]

I have to make a correction on my speedy posting:
There is NOT one verse where YHWH is ADONI pronounced ADONEE.... YHWH is always referred to as ADONAI like El Shaddai or ADON-EYE

[1stjohn0666]

John 9:9 in Koine Greek looks like this ο ένας (the one) John 9:9 looks like this εγω ειμι (I am) ... to assert that "the one" actually exists in the text is a false claim
John 9:9 does not say εγω ειμι ο ένας (I am the one)
Where did I post:
1stjohn0666 wrote:
There is not one verse in all of scripture where "ADONAI" is YHWH.... YHWH is always spoken of as ADONAI.... Being "called" something does not imply identity!! I could "call" you a jerk, but are you really and honestly a jerk?
Please enlighten me where God is called "my Lord"

It seems my post has been "edited" to say something I did NOT post!!
Re: Jehovah witnesses
by 1stjohn0666 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:27 pm

There is not one verse in all of scripture where "ADONI" is YHWH.... YHWH is always spoken of as ADONAI
Being "called" something does not imply identity!! I could "call" you a jerk, but are you really and honestly a jerk?
Nice to bring up the "EGO EIMI" of John 8:58 compare the Greek with Greek of Exodus 3:14 and they a grammatically different Exo 3:14 is "EGO EIMI HO ON" Jesus did not say that!! Jesus did say "EGO EIMI" which a few verses later in John 9:9 the blind man also said "EGO EIMI" <--- If ego eimi is a claim of being God, then the blind man must also be God because of the use of IDENTICAL words. The blind man said "I am" so he must be "another" God.
In all of the verses you presented NOT 1 has "ADONI... pronounced ADONEE, not to be confused with ADONAI, pronounced like El Shaddai or ADON-EYE
Psalm 110:1 says Adonai then Adoni... go on and fact check me!!
Jesus also is never Adonai!!

The second I am in the Greek of Exo 3:14 is not "EGO EIMI" but rather ho on, again Jesus did not say in John 8:58 "before abe "ho on"

[1stjohn0666]

Jonah was "called" Joanh because that was his name, if his name truly meant what the "definition" implied... Jonah was always "a dove" <--- that would not be human LOL

[B. W.]

It seems my post has been "edited" to say something I did NOT post!!

istjohnny666 - No it was not, I broke it into two parts too address each individually according to your own three part context. I answered your parts two and three in my second post using direct quotes from solid Christian research sources quoting them for you. These quotes aptly answer you regarding your own topic about John 8. The reason I split the post in two parts like I did is because it is easier to follow a specific context one topic at a time than to ramble in one long post.

Next, The Torah was written in ancient Hebrew and not Greek. The LXX is a Greek translation from ancient Hebrew. Instead please try reading other biblical material instead of the cultist and liberal sources you use, link too, and cite.

You falsely accuse Orthodox Christian of things they don't believe in - we are not tritheist. The preincarnate Jesus Christ most certainly spoke in the OT. The Holy Spirit speaks in the OT as well too and so does the Father - that is the workings of the person of the self existing God. There are clues all over the OT about this. I posted many of these here and on other threads of this forum too. There is none like God and the Christian Doctrine of the Divine Trinity remains true to that description verifying God's incomprehensibly as well too. We know Jesus and are known by him. You on the other hand, cannot even explain the gospel in a coherent fashion when asked to summarize the gospel message. Very telling...

For someone with some knowledge of Greek, your sure don't use it it honestly. Instead you are using it to support your own preconceived biases and refuse to to listen to anyone here. Others have answered you very-very well and thorough, ever knocking down your high tone arguments with solid scriptural support with logic and reasoning. It is you who refuse to see and like a good cultist choose to remain as you are - close minded to the truth. When the bible plainly answers you without any lengthy explanations, you should take note. Instead you respond using much hyperbole from cultist souses and not letting the bible answer itself.

Let me remind you of the board guidelines - this forum is not for people who do not want to honestly learn about Jesus and certainly not for those who desire to proselytize cultist doctrines and post their links in a sly way. Let me remind you again of the broad guidelines, this is a Christian Forum, not a platform for cultist proselytizing...

Suggest you decide on your own what your intent is here and suggest that this is not the place for you and it maybe better for you to venture elsewhere. Maybe earn you salvation another way...
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[1stjohn0666]

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If these rules of engagement seem obnoxious to you, then this board probably is not for you. It is just best you leave now.
Any non-Christians who participate in discussions do so with an understanding moderators will be the judge of whether the line is crossed.

Be respectful and use good etiquette, and moderators will treat you the same without being quick to ban. That is, you can expect cautions will be issued if it is felt you are approaching the line; a warning to be issued when you have crossed the line (which may/may not involve a temporary ban); and a permanent ban if you persist.



It seems I am in the "Aberrant Christianity" area??? Does being in this part of the forum deny Muslims, Christians (of another belief) I would even go as far to say denomination!!, Hindus, Buddhists, or any anyone "disassociated" with the Catholic faith? Remember the Creeds come from the Catholic (early church fathers) and following....
It would only seem to NOT mess the discussion rules if having a subject debated as "Aberrant Christianity"
Yes I am WILLING to understand, but it requires a great deal of "unpacking" the 3 in 1 God idea. Many have different interpretations of the subject.

Maybe the subject to bring up is the reformers you don't know or care to!!

Clear... "evidence"..... "from God" and some "science" we all should have our own honest opinions about Christology!!

After all, just WHO IS THAT GUY?
I believe Christ is NOT God himself!!


This means (non-Christians) can now (debate) Christian beliefs, however such members must keep discussions civil, show the utmost respect, sensitivity and grace, and be willing to walking away from an issue if it gets too heated

Unless "debate" is NOT an option according to the "rules"